Ladies, imagine this scenario: it’s lunchtime at the office. You and some female coworkers are gathered around the wobbly table in the break room. One of you comes up with the idea to get together after work for a drink and a bite to eat. Immediately, one of the gals in the group pulls out her cell phone. “Alright, let me ask the boss.”
Another: “Gotta check with the man in charge.”
Still another: “I don’t know if my husband will let me, but I’ll ask. [Giggles] You know, the boss runs a tight ship.”
You probably haven’t witnessed this scene. American women would never publicly (or privately) refer to their husbands as “the boss,” but follow me into this absurd hypothetical anyway.
So what’s wrong with this situation, other than its utter lack of realism?
Is it that these women are checking in with their spouses? Is it their reflex to consult with their husbands before making this decision? No, of course not. If they’re going to be coming home from work late, they ought to speak with their husbands first.
Alright, then what’s the problem?
“Boss.” The man “in charge.” He’s my “boss.” Not only would you be disgusted by these words, you’d likely assume that the women who said them must be married to abusive, demanding tyrants. Their language choice would make them seem pitiful and their husbands seem despicable. Right?
Well, then maybe you can understand my repulsion when this precise spectacle unfolds among men across the country, millions of times a day. Men often use the “boss” label when referencing their wives. I realize this is sometimes said in partial jest. Sometimes it’s meant ironically. Usually it’s a weak attempt at male bonding. “My wife bosses me around and runs the house, I bet yours is the same way. Let’s commiserate with one another.” But it should stop. Some of you veteran married dudes might not realize it, but younger guys are taking this “my wife is the boss” schtick to heart. And that’s not a good thing for anyone, least of all the women they’re marrying.
Recently a guy, around my age, came up to me when I was waiting in line at a burger joint in town. He had read my stay at home mom post and wanted to express agreement with the sentiments I articulated.
Instead he expressed agreement with sentiments I definitely did not articulate: “My wife stays at home. And, yeah, she sounds like your wife; she’s definitely the boss.”
No, dude, my wife is not my boss. I love her. She’s an incredibly strong woman. But she’s not my boss. Most importantly, she wouldn’t WANT to be my boss. She wanted to marry a man, not a henpecked hireling. I gave my life to her. We fused our souls together in the sacred act of matrimony. I’d take a bullet for my bride. I’d die to protect her. I give everything I have and everything I am to her. Everything I do right, I do for her, and my children, and God before all.
But she isn’t my boss. She doesn’t dictate to me. I’m not a cow, and she’s not a cattle driver. She counts on me to lead the family, and I hope to never fail in that duty. If I go around belittling myself and degrading my spouse by pathetically stammering about how she bosses me around all day, I have failed. I’ve failed as a man and a leader.
Maybe I’ve already failed in this regard. A few days ago, on my radio show, we were discussing the Sam Adams “Utopias” beer. It’s a gold-plated jug of brew; they release it once a year and sell it in limited quantities for 150 dollars a pop. Of course, I wouldn’t really spend 150 dollars on a bottle of alcohol, but it was fun to talk about. We joked on the air about how I could best convince my wife to consent to plunking down over a hundred bucks on a thing of booze. I never called her my boss, nor did I imply it. But that night I received emails from men giving me serious tips on how to lie to my wife the next time I want to do something that she won’t “allow.”
I wouldn’t lie to her. I wouldn’t sneak around her like a skulking school boy. If I want something, I’ll tell her. I consult with her before making many decisions — both major and minor — but she doesn’t make “rules” for me like I’m her son. If those guys had a different impression based on a short conversation about expensive beer, I regret it. And I apologize.
The culture encourages men to assume a submissive posture and shrink away from the challenges of being the captains of their ships.
Many men are happy to comply. They can sit on the couch, let their wives carry the burden, and pat themselves on the back for having the courage to live by such egalitarian principles.
But I don’t blame the culture for the scarcity of male leadership. I don’t blame feminism for it, either. We love to point the finger at existential boogeymen to explain our own failure to lead, but these are lame excuses. Feminism can do what it wants. The culture can carry on with itself. In my family, I will lead. This can irritate you. This can offend you. This can injure your progressive sensibilities. I don’t care. My wife doesn’t care. We’ll raise children who won’t care. I believe that men have a duty to lead, and I believe that there are many, many women who agree with me.
Notice: I’m not saying that the man should be the boss. Being a leader doesn’t mean being a “boss.” But I don’t need to spend time dispelling the notion that men ought to be the boss, because, as we’ve covered, that notion doesn’t really exist.
Last week I got a Facebook message from a lady who wanted me to write a post addressing the Christian husbands and fathers that stay home on Sundays, forcing their wives to take the kids to church alone. She told me about her own prize catch; he wakes up at around 11 AM to play video games, meanwhile she brings their two sons to church. Something tells me this is the sort of guy who would call his wife “the boss.” After all, she is the boss — and something else tells me she’d love it if she didn’t have to be. I’m betting she wouldn’t feel at all insulted if her spouse woke up early next Sunday, put on some church clothes, got the kids dressed, and said, “honey, I want to take the lead.” I could be wrong, of course. I don’t know this woman. But I’m guessing she’d be overjoyed if hubby dropped the video game controller and picked up the Cross of Leadership.
We’re told by the Modern Enlightened that men should never be encouraged to “man up.” Such a statement encourages dreaded “gender stereotypes.” It makes men feel like they can’t be feminine, and women feel as though they shouldn’t be masculine. And who is to say what constitutes femininity and masculinity, anyway? No, let men be people, and women be people, and let the differences between them be nothing more than anatomical and cosmetic.
Yet, most straight single men, no matter how progressive, still venture into the world looking for a woman. And most straight single women, no matter how liberated, still desire a man. It’s quite rare that either looks to find just a “human” of any variety. No, they specifically want a woman, or they specifically want a man. And what is it about the other sex that draws them? I suppose we’re meant to believe it’s the other’s genitalia and nothing more. But we all know this to be a lie. We all do. No matter how many gender studies classes we’ve taken.
There is something about a man that appeals to a woman; something that complements her and completes her. There is something about a woman that appeals to a man; something that complements him and completes him. I think that a man who leads and protects is a man who acts on the masculine qualities which a woman seeks. This is a very scandalous statement nowadays, although our ancestors would likely yawn at it for being so painfully obvious.
But the obvious is lost on a world without common sense.
So, fellas, your wife is not your boss. Or if she is, she shouldn’t be. And, if I may be so bold, I doubt very much that she wants to be.
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Thank you … Get so sick of the boss talk. So belittling and sad.
All men are better suited for being leaders? You haven’t met my husband. I was forced into the submissive role and was never happy about it, but now I just go with it because it’s not worth fighting, I no longer want to cause my husband who is a grown man to throw a temper tantrum like a 2 year old. His “leadership” has put us in financial ruin. Thanks to his “leadership” every credit card we have is nearly maxed out. Some leader. That the problem I have with this men the leaders and women submit, not every man is capable of leading, and not every woman would be happy to submit. Of course I know most would say that men should respect the wifes opinion, but mine has none for me.
I hate seeing things like this. The reality of what happens when one makes arbitrary decisions based on nothing more than historical roles that were based upon a world nothing like the modern one.
I sincerely hope you find an avenue to escape from that situation.
I can tell you that this line.
“Of course I know most would say that men should respect the wifes opinion”
This line is impossible with the relationship outlined as “men rule because they are men”. One cannot have “the final say” and then claim to be in a partnership or a situation of mutual respect. In essence, when it is said that the man has the final say, any decision or opinion of the woman is only considered viable if the man agrees or “allows” the decision to be made. This differs from a relationship of true mutual respect in the fact that I have absolutely no say in what my wife does or how she does it. My wife has no say in what I do or how I do it. Instead we discuss our relationship and our decisions and actions. There have been times when my wife, or myself, have made purchases without discussion. These activities happen when we both know we have enough liquid assets to make such purchases without affecting our livelihood. We of course notify the other after such purchases….but I do not see the need for her to obtain my permission to act in a way that will not adversely affect our family or our relationship. Of course with large purchases there is always a discussion, and sometimes a debate, about said purchases.
There are also behaviors that each of us will not tolerate. We have agreed on the intolerable behaviors and came to a mutual understanding of what these behaviors are and agreed that each of us will adhere to the expectations outlined.
There are a myriad of behaviors of hers that I feel no need to question…and the same for me.
In the end what I am trying to say is that anyone who tells you that the man should be in charge and be the final authority in a marriage, but should respect their wife, is uttering nonsense. One cannot rule their partner and respect them as a partner at the same time.
Ignore the lies about it being “natural” or “meant to be”. The original role of men leading the women was due to nothing more than men being, overall, physically stronger and able to protect the family. They also used their physical dominance to establish their leadership over women, today that is a crime…as it should be. These standards were kept by excluding women from education and the work force by men unwilling to surrender the role of Master. For generations women were told they were inferior both physically and intellectually. I don’t understand how any modern woman can accept these historically biased views that were promoted using emotional and physical abuse to maintain. Education was forbidden….they were emotionally and physically dominated.
Times have changed. A man does not show strength in muscle mass. The highest paying jobs do not require an ounce of physical strength. It is with intellect that strength is now measured. The best paying jobs, on the whole, are equally available to men and women (at least in principle…men still try to claim dominance by restrictring the advancement of women). The only justification for men to be designated leaders has vanished, and along with it the bias of the inherent “frailty” of women….and good riddance.
Sorry for the novel…I just hope you understand that you should never feel that being the servant and submissive is inherently the proper role. And there are men who have moved past the Neanderthal and Dark Ages mindset to understand this.
I really appreciate this comment. I was raised in a really conservative Christian environment with all the anti-feminism and guys must be strong leaders stuff. And even though it never adversely affected me, I still hate it.
I’m not ashamed at all to say I am a rather feminine guy. Not physically…I am huge and bearded. I’m very much a man. But mentally, I think like a woman (or at least, how all those books written for men about how women think say that women think), and process things how women do. I do not understand guys, all of my close friends have been girls, I am totally not a natural leader as they say guys are “supposed to be”, I am not sexually attracted until I have formed an emotional connection…I could go on. Femininity is not weak, or lacking courage, or negative in any way. Why should we be afraid to be the way we were made, just because society (or a patriarchal Christian) tells us that it’s more similar to the opposite sex than the “typical” member of our own sex?
It hurts to be scoffed at for saying I understand girls better than I do guys. It hurts to be told that being my natural self is wrong. It hurts to be stifled and ignored by guys because my thoughts and interests are not “manly” enough, and by girls because “guys don’t understand these things.” It hurts to have nobody believe me when I say I don’t get angry, or look at porn, or lust, or whatever the stereotypical guy apparently finds to be unavoidable.
I am totally a man, but I wish I was a woman; if men are supposed to be the way the patriarchal Christians say, then I’d rather not be one. Because I’m not and I cannot be that way.
What I’d really like, though, is to find a woman who completes me specifically, and who I complete specifically. I’m not out to become the perfect complement to the “ideal woman”. I don’t want a woman who complements this myth of the “ideal man”. I want someone who knows me, with all my quiet, feminine, autistic ways, and loves me for who I am. I would like to be a man while retaining my unique personality and abilities.
If it makes you feel better most of my good friends are guys, they just make more sense to me. I can say what I mean and men don’t try to figure out what I really mean.
Anyway, my husband loves that I buy the cars, I deal with salesmen, he isn’t that great at confrontations, no worries, I am great at negotiating.
My husband cries more than I do but it is funny, he cries and I can see what is moving him and I cry along with him. I mean like movies and stuff like that. I am the one going well that couldn’t happen! He keeps me attached to my emotional side.
I feel like I am rambling here but you need to find a woman that doesn’t buy into the nonsense. I hate the term he completes me because last I checked I am not missing any vital parts. Together we are each better than we were alone, better?
It is the most remarkable thing when you find the person who is as close to perfect for you as a human can find. Keep looking, she is out there. 🙂
I understand. I’m a woman who has always been on the opposite side of that coin and my husband is not your typical manly man, either. I have some things that are womanly and some things that are manly. I don’t like when my husband or a friend even alludes to me in a “the boss” kind of way (doesn’t happen to often but he will go alone with it if someone else says it first). However, my innate personality is a lot more dominant that his; we found that out in premarriage counseling. So I do my best to see him as God sees him and not take things personally, not take offense if I am not consulted. He does his best to consult me for everything because we are in a relationship. I pay the bills and balance the budget because that takes time he doesn’t have but he works outside the home and I homeschool. We do our best to complement each other’s strengths and weaknesses without caring about gender. Men and women may be generally different but there are people like us who do not fit the mold. That’s why I don’t like gender stereotypes. Not because they aren’t true, but because they aren’t for me and I have felt discrimination based on that.
Jo, you’re right about the “completes me” phrase. I just didn’t know what else to use. Recently I said to some friends:
“…why do I have to live up to someone else’s idea of what a “whole, healthy person” is? If I’m not, well thanks for letting me know I’m broken and incomplete. Rejecting me for that will really help me get better…
I’d like to think I’m a whole person just because…well, I exist. I don’t need to work on myself or get “better” in order to be “whole”, to be worthy of love or relationship or friendship or whatever. I’m not broken because I can’t connect with or relate to people like a “normal person” would. (Or maybe I am. Maybe I don’t deserve anything from anyone because I am incapable of giving them what they need. Is that how life works? I give, you take, and if you’re satisfied, then you love me?)”
It’s hard being autistic, even harder when the one person you trust more than anyone, who helped you figure yourself out, suddenly abandons you because of it. Because apparently I was broken and incomplete and she thought two people should be whole and fine on their own before they join together into a team. I tend to think that it’s how you stick together despite the brokenness that makes a strong relationship.
I totally get that! My son is autistic, there is so much cool there. Not everyone sees it. I am ADHD so although I have some amazing strengths there is a quirky side that a lot of people wanted to destroy. It is like they cannot see that what makes me amazing is driven by that insanity, for the lack of a better word.
Troy, my husband, loves the strengths and loves the quirkiness. He never tries to change who I am. That is what you want to find, someone who appreciates it is a package. Granted if I am doing something that I don’t realize he points it out. Like if I say something and don’t realize it could sound mean, he will say did you mean that? Ohhhh nooooo!! totally didn’t mean it that way.
Oh my god, flaming homeless man falls on a building causing a four alarm fire!! Watching the news. Can’t make that stuff up, poor guy.
I digress.
If I can find Troy there is someone for you! My younger son is 14, I am sure there is someone for him as well. My older son it too much like mom, he may be near 40 before he finds someone as well. 🙂 Oh, Troy is my second husband, made all! the mistakes with the first.
Always nice to find someone who appreciates autistic people. Especially parents of autistic kids. I know autistic people of many ages and they’re all wonderful. I don’t want to be “fixed”, I’m not broken. The misconceptions about it get really frustrating sometimes.
I also know a few ADHD girls and they are so awesome. 😀
I really do need someone who is willing to be blunt and honest with me. Who asks me to get her a glass of water if she wants me to instead of telling me that she is thirsty (my own illustration of the sort of clear communication I need). I get so confused by all the implications people see and I’m pretty much blind to facial expressions and body language.
It’s hard to have hope and currently I can’t really trust anyone at all, but I know there’s somebody, somewhere, who would take me as I am, so I guess I just have to keep looking.
It is hard being the parent of an autistic kid, not because he is hard to raise but that everything in me wants to protect him from ever being hurt. It isn’t about me though is it? I am so impressed with how resilient he is.
You are not broken and I am glad you realize that. 🙂
Yeah, that is why I prefer to talk to guys, they say what they mean and mean what they say. My example would be if a woman says that color looks awful on you they are trying to hurt you and make you feel bad. If a guy says that color looks awful on you toss it in the goodwill pile it is just not flattering.
I wasn’t looking for Troy when I found him, I was just chatting with a guy while I studied. He told me he loves my mind, well I had to marry him right? 🙂
Luke, I have good news.
I have Asperger’s syndrome…being a person with Autism I have no doubt you know what that is.
A few things about what you have said.
I agree that autism is not a “deficiency” or “handicap” in a sense of lowered brain function or capability (my IQ is off the charts and varies between the highest scores). It is only a handicap in the sense of communication, and it is only this way because autistic people, in general, are not wired for the social norms that make no sense. We do not waste our time thinking about how we should lie or “soften” the truth to make someone feel better. If a action does not harm someone we do not worry about “what will people think?”
Our way of processing and evaluations is vastly different and in many instances, honestly, superior. Never feel ashamed to admit that you have an ability that puts you in a higher state of mental function than the majority…just always remember that we all have our weaknesses and faults and our assets do not erase our liabilities.
I am happily married to a brilliant woman who does not have any form of Autism…but she loves me. Communication is challenging…but she is helping me learn, and I am helping her learn, how we can better express and communicate with each other.
So there is hope….and one need not fall into the pitfalls of emulating common behavior to see it to fruition (I went down the emulation path…it’s a nightmare).
We are quite interesting people, I think. The autistic ones. I’m actually thinking that autism is a step of microevolution, not a disorder. Not something wrong, but a new way of thinking and experiencing the world that is really pretty darn cool. Whether or not it will become the norm in the future, I have no idea. It sure isn’t a survival benefit in terms of the future of our species (i.e. getting married and having autistic kids)…but we’re awesome, aren’t we? We do awesome things. We’re the ones who start companies and make breakthroughs in science. (I’m so sad the TV show Alphas was canceled…it did a great job exploring the concept of neurodiversity, and the best character is an autistic guy.)
Sometimes I think I’m broken, sometimes I believe it, but not just because I’m autistic…it’s more because of how I’ve been treated because of it and how I obsess over that and struggle to move on. I don’t know how I keep surviving. It hurts constantly.
Straightforward communication is the best. So is loving someone for their mind. Because that’s more important than their body. I fell in love with my former fiancee because she stuck with me through a horrible few months of my life, but at the same time wasn’t afraid to be blunt. I really thought she would keep doing that. Guess it was too exhausting to keep lying to the autistic genius (never mind that I tried to get her to tell me anything that bothered her and be straightforward and honest about it.)
I like Big Bang Theory, my son is just like Sheldon. Heck I am like Sheldon at times. Actually I am like Bones and Monk got together and had a kid.
I wish you could meet my son, at 14 he seems wiser than I am. It took me till 40 to accept there is nothing wrong with me as a person, it is a simple function that I am not like them and they don’t understand me. People weren’t trying to hurt me, they didn’t understand so they treated me like they would treat each other, which hurt. He has figured that out at 14, with my help, amazing kid!
Anyway, you need to figure out who you are, not who other people think you are, not who you think other people would like you to be. That was what I figured out at 40, if I am myself a LOT of people won’t like me but those that do will stick around forever. There are times I still act normal, like work, when I have to be around people that don’t know me but otherwise I am who I am. I do not believe I would have my husband if I had not accepted that I am who I am.
I wish I had some magic words for you, no one should hurt. I can tell you that I led a hard life, as a child I did not think the world wanted me in it, I felt like a freak. All that pain was worth the happiness I have now.
The idea of autism being a event due to micro evolution is a concept I have pondered as well. And in fact there are quite a few studies being produced that support this hypothesis (it may yet be a theory or even fact in our lifetime). The first clue being that in the history of Autism there has never been a single external and environmental direct cause found (direct of course being used to classify it differently from an evolutionary or adaptive cause). Our ability to process and evaluate data is unsurpassed. Our brains have tossed aside senseless social constructs in favor of the data based environment and lifestyle that surrounds us. It is not just technology…but the very function of the human mind that bombards us with such large quantities of data. As our brains progress sacrifices must be made to dedicate more functions to what is considered beneficial. In this day and age technology…intellect is what benefits us. The best paying jobs, by and large, deal with data and complex processing of information while maintaining as objective as possible (hence our lack of social interactions but our ability to read and predict behaviors on the whole but not of the individual).
I could go on and on.
But you are NOT broken, you are different…and the modern world needs such intellect.
You know this…you know you are smarter than most of the people around you. People hate anyone that they perceive as better….never forget that.
@Jo: Ah I love Monk and Sheldon. Haven’t seen Bones yet but it’s on my list. I sympathize with Monk so much although I’m not quite as OCD. I do feel like a freak and that I don’t belong anywhere but I’m still trying. Still kicking.
@Charles: Asperger’s is what I have, as well. I just say high-functioning autism since they removed Asperger’s as an official diagnosis, merging it into the autism spectrum, and they’re basically the same thing. So yeah. Very familiar. 🙂 I have several Aspie friends and they’re really awesome people. My username on one writer’s forum is Aspie.
Thanks for the encouragement. I was told by my fiancee and her family that I couldn’t expect people to compromise for me, to meet me halfway all the time, because I’m the one who’s different. They kept telling me I should try harder to figure out how to communicate normally. I’ve got that from other people too. So now I’m pretty much on my own and not really associating with anyone. I recently found a local group of autistic adults who meet every month, so I’m hoping I can find some local friends who understand me.
“I was told by my fiancee and her family that I couldn’t expect people to compromise for me, to meet me halfway all the time, because I’m the one who’s different”
But isn’t that what they are asking you to do? I do not lord my intellect over people, oh, would you like me to dumb this down for you? I am constantly pulling metaphors out my ass to explain complex things in a way most people would understand in a way that doesn’t sound dumbed down. Yes, Charles, that is why I speak in metaphors so much.
Still I am happy to communicate with humans, why is it so hard for them to try to communicate with me? Sometimes I wish I had the Spock ears, maybe then it would be cool to communicate with me. Then again as I have said before, I have some great friends that do.
I feel like the odd man out here but then the only difference between me and my son, I have the sense to not articulate some of my thoughts.
Wana hear something that has nagged at me most of my life? Fat people, I mean morbidly obese. The bottom of their legs appear to be cracking under the pressure. Are they really or is that an optical illusion? Yeah, my son would ask them, I just post it on blogs and message boards. :p
Jo.
Ah, I did wonder why it was a constant theme for you. I dislike metaphors…but yours often make me chuckle.
Perhaps I should start employing that tactic more often.
It really works, people do not know what you are doing.
I once used home owners insurance as a metaphor for some derivatives, explained it to an 80 year old coworker, when I finished she said those bastards! Yup, she got it.
Luke. A behavioral pattern I have noticed. People tend to imagine something is impossible if they are incapable of doing it.
My wife and I both compromise. It was hard….VERY hard.
I was fortunate to have a therapist who understood autism. He helped me understand that my wife does not have it. That she needed to know that I was not like others. I don’t have hidden meaning in my words. That if she doesn’t warn me that she is about to engage me in conversation I have no opportunity to cease my focus on my current activity and focus on her.
She had to understand how I was different…I had to understand that she didn’t know it. I have to tell her when I am overstimulated and need to refocus.
The group should help you a lot.
But the point is…your ex and her family are wrong. My wife dedicated herself to understanding autism and studying it as I learned about myself as well. If your partner is not willing to do this…they are not worth a moment of your time. But we have to adapt to…we need to read these books so we know what we need to explain and how we need to refocus our attentions on those we care about.
A major issue was that I did not tell her I love her enough…or how I cherish and admire her. In my mind…I knew it and I felt it was obvious. But people need to hear those things….
Anyway, I’m going into an Aspie rant (another thing that people need explaining…sometimes we just need to be told to hush.)
@Charles again: Yes, very similar to what I’ve been thinking. I’m hoping it won’t be long before society leans that way, and stops seeing it as something wrong.
I haven’t taken an “official” IQ test but I’ve gotten many Mensa books and things, that all turned out to be pretty easy. My SAT test score supposedly correlates to an IQ of 140-150, and every online IQ test that seems decent that I’ve taken agrees with that. I don’t put much stock in IQ itself…it’s only a measure of how much you know and how much your mind works. Wisdom is much more important. So yes, I know I’m quite intelligent. I’ve had a #1 bestselling author tell me that my writing is really good. I know many people who are jealous of what my brain can do.
I’m just so tired of being alone. And I don’t think they would be jealous if they knew how much it hurts to be separated from society like this. The drawbacks are all too real for me right now.
That should be “how fast your mind works” not “how much.” Darn alcohol. 😛
@Jo: Haha, you’re making me smile. Which doesn’t happen often. Spock ears. Yes. Fat people, yes. Being older I’ve learned more about keeping certain thoughts quiet. Problem is I keep almost ALL of them quiet. So I don’t say things I should say. I simply cannot figure out where the ideal line is. I got people upset at me for staying quiet when I should have said something, and for saying something when I should have stayed quiet. So frustrating. If I feel comfortable, also very rare, I almost invariably end up saying stupid things that make people upset for no reason I can see. When I was younger, I did that a lot. I have so many awkward memories.
@Charles: Ah, yes, the Aspie rant. I’ve done it many times since finding out I’m on the spectrum a little over a year ago. I have definitely put a lot of work into studying it and figuring out how to explain things to people who don’t understand. My fiancee was doing that too. She got scared off by things like “80% of marriages involving an Aspie will fail” and all the effort she’d have to put into communicating clearly. I still don’t really understand why that was so frightening, but apparently it was too much. Oh well. Maybe someday I will move on (it’s been exactly eleven months since the breakup and I haven’t gotten anywhere yet…)
Hey, if you want to continue talking in another medium, I’d really like that. Facebook or whatever. I haven’t spoken personally with any married Aspies, just read blogs by a couple of them, so it would be cool to talk about things.
Electamyreason@gmail.com
Email me.
If anyone but Jo or Luke email me ill block you without hesitation…so don’t bother.
I could just see Rambo stalking you! :p
I think with age I have hit the point of I don’t give a shit. Okay maybe too strong of words. Still I know there are people out there that are just going to hate me and nothing I can say will make them like me, their loss. There are others that love me, crazy fools! I kid I kid! Then there are others that like me if they understand so with that in mind I tell people pretty much straight off, hey, I have this disorder that makes me say stupid things, if I say something that no rational human would say it is either sarcasm or I didn’t word it right. Just ask, did you mean it like that and I will be happy to explain.
You would be amazed how many people that are open to that, those that aren’t are that group that was going to hate me anyway.
If you click on my name it links to my blog. That specific one is about Andy, my younger son. I think, I started another one but I am pretty sure it hasn’t gone live. In there there is a link to my message board which is a parenting message board but it is really for people like us who happen to be parents. Anyway, if you guys join the message board you are welcome to just message. Just know most of the active members have a disorder so it isn’t like you guys starting discussions would raise any eyebrows.
Shelly, that’s terribly sad. I’m sorry to hear it. I can only imagine. Both forced submission and selfish leadership are terrible things.
That is why it is all the more important to teach our young boys about sacrifice and selflessness and what leadership truly looks like.
I’m so sorry to hear of your struggle. I’ll add it to my prayers today. In a perfect world, this would work great in every case, but we’re far from that. It sounds like he’s not doing a great job of being mature in his leadership. I think we tend to say that leadership has to look a certain way, but I know couples where the wife is in charge of finances and or the husband does all the cooking and cleaning, yet there is not a constant confusion of leadership. It’s more attitude than a certain look.
I don’t know your situation or what will help, but I do know that you can still be a good wife even when your husband isn’t doing the best job of being husband. Perhaps it’s time to get help from a trusted pastor or counselor or older family member. I read a book recently that might help: Boundaries in Marriage. Even if you don’t take action on anything it says, sometimes it helps to see the situation through different eyes. Sometimes helping your husband to be a good leader might mean setting boundaries for him or finding him help. But again, that’s not for me to say. God be with your family!
So you were a child bride in a tribal culture, then? Or hostage to some crazy violent medieval religion *cough*Islam*cough*?
Because if you weren’t, if you were an adult Western woman, then no one “forced” you into anything. You FREELY CHOSE to marry the man you married.
Ask yourself why you made such a stunningly bad choice. Ask yourself why you revel in being the victim. Why when discussing your marriage the only examples you will use are ALL about irresponsible, selfish, controlling him and suffering victim you.
Me, I’m tired of married whiners of both genders blaming their spouses for everything that’s wrong in the marriage. This is infantile. Take responsibility for yourself. Your attitudes, words and actions. No one is FORCING you to be miserable. Misery is your choice. You can also choose to change. Or not. You can also choose to hang out at your own personal pity party for the rest of your days.
“So you were a child bride in a tribal culture, then? Or hostage to some crazy violent medieval religion *cough*Islam*cough*?”
You should really look up Christianity and its history of child brides and the horrendous treatment of women based on that perspective…then maybe you won’t utter idiotic generalizations.
As to the rest of your demeaning rant. You clearly have not worked with women that are victims of mental and/or physical abuse. Nor do you seem to understand how well abusive spouses tend to charming undermine ones self esteem and wait until they have their victim under physical and emotional hostage. Put your insults away and offer encouragement…not insults. It’s time to pick those knuckles off the ground.
Furthermore, some people are firmly convinced that they must suffer to keep a husband and wife together for the children. Perhaps this is the reason. It is well meaning and misguided. Of course in such a situation her misery will not allow her to be the supportive mother she should be. But how many times is it put out there that two parents are so much better for children? Sometimes people think its better they suffer so their children can have two parents.
Your woeful lack of insight and evaluation of possible variables makes you unfit for any guidance.
I COMPLETELY agree with you! You took the words right out of my mouth! Yes, I believe that women would be happy for a little constructive leadership. 50% of the leadership. But what if they are incapable in certain areas? Above all else, leadership should have NOTHING to do with gender (And I have a lot of well educated, Christian men and pastors who would back me up on that), it should have to do with personality style and strengths. He leads based on his strengths, I take leadership based on mine.
I admit that I sometimes refer to my wife as “The Boss”, “The Warden”, or some other goofy name…usually said in jest. And most weekends arrive and I’ve already forgotten the plans that I made at the beginning of the week. So I naturally tend to “check in” with my wife and she reminds me about what we discussed earlier in the week and things that have come up since then.
My wife also has her life. She tends to the kids while I’m at work and naturally things will come up during the day that I need to know about. So we discuss everything and decide together what is important and what is not.
So does this make me less of a man?
I think not. I married my wife not to rule over her or to have a personal servant, but to share my life with, to continue my family tree with, to take care of her, and to make HER life better. Because, oddly enough, doing these things ultimately makes my life better. We don’t always get it right, but we do always do it . . . wait for it . . . TOGETHER.
You shall desire your husband and he shall rule over you. -God
This is what happened as a result of the fall. It is not prescriptive but rather descriptive. Leading and ruling are not the same. Leaders lead by example, by inspiring, by serving, by putting the needs of those they are responsible for first. They are not to lead by dominating. There is no God given command in the bible for a husband to rule his wife. Look at the verse carefully, it is telling of the tyranny that would happen not telling what should happen. Husbands are commanded to love their wives. To bestow honor on them and to treat them as they would want to be treated. These are commands.
consider: Matthew 20:25-28
25 And Jesus called them to Him and said, You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men hold them in subjection [tyrannizing over them].
26 Not so shall it be among you; but whoever wishes to be great among you must be your servant,
27 And whoever desires to be first among you must be your slave—
28 Just as the Son of Man came not to be waited on but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many [the price paid to set them free].
Christ is the example
But what if having my wife “be the boss” is what we were both looking for in a marriage? I don’t feel belittled by our relationship, but I do by your rant, Matt. I suppose one has draw a following somehow.
Shelly, I am sincerely sorry you have had to experience this. It is not the way we are designed and it skews much of the beauty of the marriage relationship so badly that it is almost unrecognizable.
I would venture to say that he actually is suited internally for leadership, but he lacks any skill or training in it. He might not know how to be a leader, so he defaults to being a tyrant or boss. It is the same experience many see in the professional world. New manager… never been trained on management …. resorts to the pyramid of screaming to get his people scared enough to do something. That’s a person who wants to lead and has no idea how. I iterate that from a capability standpoint, all men are designed by God to do it. His issue is not in his capacity, but in gaps in his understanding, knowledge, and skill. He needs to learn how.
One last response. I am certain that not every woman would be happy to submit. Just like not every man would be happy to lead. I am also certain that being happy to do it has nothing to do with whether or not we should. Men love their wives best through servant leadership and sacrifice. Women love their husbands best through respect and deference and submission to this leadership. Remember, submission and submissive have widely different connotations, as they should. Learning Christ-like leadership and church-like submission is a hard thing.
Please don’t take this as a lecture. It is just meant to inform. Lack of dialogue, information, and understanding is how many of us find ourselves where we do. The good news is that the Designer is strong enough to restore it.
The writer is an insecure male who would use force to get his way. Marriage is an agreement between two people to start a new live with no ‘bosses’. Just equal partners devoted to doing what’s best for the new family.
I’m pretty sure that he said rather specifically that they were made into one soul when they were married, and that he stated a few times that he was not his wife’s boss. They made decisions together, and it is a partnership. Please read the article thoroughly before you make inaccurate accusations.
Perhaps you should re read.
“She wanted to marry a man, not a henpecked hireling. I gave my life to her. We fused our souls together in the sacred act of matrimony. I’d take a bullet for my bride. I’d die to protect her. I give everything I have and everything I am to her. Everything I do right, I do for her, and my children, and God before all.”
Clearly he thinks his role is protector, her role to be protected.
“We joked on the air about how I could best convince my wife to consent to plunking down over a hundred bucks on a thing of booze. I never called her my boss, nor did I imply it. But that night I received emails from men giving me serious tips on how to lie to my wife the next time I want to do something that she won’t “allow.”
I wouldn’t lie to her. I wouldn’t sneak around her like a skulking school boy. If I want something, I’ll tell her. I consult with her before making many decisions — both major and minor — but she doesn’t make “rules” for me like I’m her son. If those guys had a different impression based on a short conversation about expensive beer, I regret it. And I apologize.”
His wife is not allowed to not “allow” In other words he makes the final decision. Sure he will tell her he is buying the beer, he will talk to her, but she doesn’t make the rules…obviously he does.
Sorry but telling your wife you are buying something is not making decisions together. That would involve listening, considering her opinion, being open to the idea she may be right. I do not see him saying that is the process. The process is he calls to notify her he is doing something.
I shake my head every time. It seems people don’t get it. It’s not even that he says its the way his house runs…he goes forward with it to make the rediculous claim that ALL marriages should work this way.
Want a leader? Fine..
But in our home there is no need.
To put it simply…I have no need for a fully grown woman that “needs” me to lead her.
Not to stir the pot but can you imagine what happens in the Walsh type households when the little woman must make a decision. I mean I can only assume that could come up. Like say the dead of winter and the furnace goes out. Does she have to call the big man and find out what to do? Say she just calls the number stuck on the side of the furnace. So she takes this as indicating her man’s wishes and they send out a repairman. Blower motor, 600 bucks. Sign here Mrs Man. Um, I can’t do that without speaking with my husband first and he is in a meeting….
Sorry but I can’t live in a system where you must answer to one person. Why would you marry someone if you can’t trust them to make decisions or value their opinion?
The writer is an insecure male who would use force to get his way. Marriage is an agreement between two people to start a new life with no ‘bosses’. Just equal partners devoted to doing what’s best for the new family.
Reply
Thanks for the great article. It takes courage to leave the safe waters of “equality” in favor of people standing up to and living to their full potential. I know many women who want a man to stand up and be a man, because they feel overwhelmed going it alone. Equal partners among diverse talents.
I have noticed a pattern with the authors writing on subjects such as this. He tries to be overly eloquent to mask the true meaning of his words. This is a tactic used by many who promote the idea of a submissive woman as the ideal.
Lets sum up his message.
If you are a man you are in charge…..frankly put…bull.
And no…his message is not that men need to man up and treat their wives respectfully. The idea he promotes is that the man has the final say in “his” household. He introduces the concept that he does not advocate abuse (which I do not doubt that he is against physical abuse) to mask the fact that he’s still insisting that women, essentially, bend to the will of their husband. I keep seeing in his article and all the responses that the man should be the leader…then they soften their blow by saying that men shouldn’t lord over women but should negotiate…but the man has the final say.
Lets be clear. If the man ultimately has the final say, negotiation is IMPOSSIBLE. You are creating an illusion. The reason this is an illusion is because at any moment the husband could “put his foot down” and say its going to be his way. If you advocate a relationship where a man “allows” his wife to make decisions then you are a sexist. I do not allow my wife to make decisions…I accept that we are equals and I have no right to expect (ever) that things will go my way. I only have the right to expect that negotiations will happen if we disagree, and if she can provide sufficient reason that my idea is unacceptable and I am unable to support my position…then I do not get my way. But in all honesty those moments are incredibly rare. We were attracted to each other because of our similar world view.
Some people are happy in a marriage as as the author described it…good for them. I do not believe it is the disrespect that he truly has issue with with a man referring to his wife as “the boss”. Otherwise the article would have ended with him expressing that such is disrespectful. But…instead he flew into a rant about how destructive it is that men are not seen as “God designated leaders”. He has issue with couples disagreeing with his Bible derived marriage formula. I have news for you, not everyone follows the Bible…welcome to reality.
I won’t go into too much detail about why men seem to be losing their purpose. But one that I have seen is that “traditional” men are not willing to teach their sons that the paradigm is shifting…men are lost because their role of Master has been rightfully questioned. It is not a woman’s responsibly to submit to a man because he wants a pet. It is men’s responsibility to adapt. I welcome the role of my wife as an equal. There is no “leader” in our home…I do not get the final say…and I don’t want to. These men that can’t adjust to the change have two choices…find a woman who still holds the standard they value…or change. No one has the right to expect women to go back to being ruled over just because some men don’t know how to adapt.
If you think the women are actually happy in this type of relationship you should read his porn post. Of course they have to justify their choices by saying porn is the problem rather than the relationship itself is based on degrading women but ya know, what ever helps them sleep at night.
I think that is what is so messed up in the “traditional” marriage, in the end the only control the woman holds is over sex, how often, what type, only control so they use it and then when the men seek other venues they have no power over that.
I had a traditional marriage, no thanks. My second husband I would move heaven and earth for him because he would do the same for me. No one has the upper hand based on gender it is based on mutual respect.
“There is no ‘leader’ in our home..” I feel sorry for your children that there is no one leading them.
That gave me a chuckle. Honestly…it did. You equate me nor my wife seeing either of ourselves as being “in charge” of the other…you then strip it of all relative context and morph my words to mean we do not educate or lead our children as a unit. I pity the child raised by someone with such poor reading comprehension and critical thinking skills.
They are leading as a team. And it works for them. If they are happy and it works why feel sorry for them? They are showing there children how to respectfully care for a spouse. There are many ways to have a happy loving household. If they are showing there children a loving relationship them they are showing what Jesus would want them to show…even if it is different from how you and your spouse show love to each other.
Their children. I misspelled that one…
“There is something about a man that appeals to a woman; something that complements her and completes her. There is something about a woman that appeals to a man; something that complements him and completes him. I think that a man who leads and protects is a man who acts on the masculine qualities which a woman seeks. This is a very scandalous statement nowadays, although our ancestors would likely yawn at it for being so painfully obvious.”
I guess it’s a good thing that we, unlike our ancestors, are not in a daily battle for survival where masculinity was required for survival simply because strength was required to fight off predators. I guess we are lucky that we do not need to hunt and carry back large carcasses on a daily basis to feed the family and village.
You are using a standard based on a lifestyle that is no longer applicable. I guess you forgot that humanity adapts to its environment?
Once after my divorce I had to find a place to store an old TV, you know the 140 pound nightmares? I put it on top of the fridge in the garage. How? Physics. That is what Matt fails to see, what a lot of people fail to see, when you are physically weaker to survive you must use intellect.
Okay so my husband had a decent intellect as well but still together we are a force… 🙂
Physics…how the understanding of it has opened so many opportunities; I get a grin every time I try to count the ways it has benefitted us.
But I just thought of an irony in Matt’s statement that I thought you might get a kick out of.
In another blog he basically voiced his belief in absolute morality. In essence saying that right and wrong are absolute. This would eradicate the “might makes right” concept.
Yet….in the example I quoted he is directly claiming that the man having greater physical might makes his rule proper….funny that.
It also seems to illustrate how Matt is in flux between morality, take out the trash, the new car shall be a Mustang, and blue! He seems to like to claim everything on the basis of god said this…. I have a hard time finding the moral nature of mini van v SUV. Disneyland v Hawaii.
So the neighbor just bought a sweet SUV Matt sees it, he wants one, needs one. Wife says dude!! we can’t afford it! Matt says no! I have a dick and I am the man (I love saying dick but cannot explain why) I need that car! End of discussion woman! I imagine he loves that passage where Jesus calls Mary woman, I digress. So Matt is coveting his neighbors goods but he has a dick so dick trumps commandments?
Yeah I am really tired, not sure if I made sense.
Most of you who have commented below, have completely missed the original point that is being made. Instead, you are doing just as the writer describes, jumping on the “abusive men” soap box. I’ll avoid the long rant, and say what I was going to say. Asking your wife or partner for that matter for permission like they are your parent figure, is flat out and ridiculously pathetic. He closes the article, with a challenge to the submissive men out there who he is talking about to step up, and not be bossed around by their wife. It’s funny turn that statement around and it won’t offend anyone. “Stand up for yourself and don’t let your husband boss you around”. Funny, right? Don’t change the writers intention people, it reflects your intellect or the lack there of.
At the point where I started typing this there are no comments below yours yet you have the audacity to have a go at other people’s intellect? Pretty sure even the comments you don’t agree with have a sufficient intellect to tell the difference between up and down. Oh oops
So far as the point Matt is trying to make, well the written word is not my thing but still, I see multiple points being made and fair few are in conflict with the others. So you picked up on the one that agrees with your belief structure, that doesn’t negate the validity of anyone else’s argument or opinion.
“Stand up for yourself and don’t let your husband boss you around” Even when you change it to wife it doesn’t make sense in the context of this story. Look at his first example, going out after work. Regardless of the words you use you are not calling your spouse to ask permission. You are calling to say, bunch are going out after work, I would like to go, do you see any reason why this is a bad idea. It is asking the other’s opinion, not permission. It is simple respect for the other.
I know if I just didn’t come home until 8 or 9 my husband wouldn’t be angry, he would be stressed and worried. The crime is not going out and having fun without permission. The crime is putting your spouse through unnecessary worry. What loving person would do that?
So the question is why did this statement trigger this response in Matt? That men shouldn’t ask permission, that they should lead, that if they want to do something they should do it. It is a question you should ask yourself because the answer is the one true point of his blog. Don’t worry, I won’t insult your intellect because you didn’t pick up on that. I can only assume you are not as well educated as I am. :p (that is a joke by the way, in case sarcasm is lost on you)
I’ll translate if necessary.
I just can’t help myself.
“”Stand up for yourself and don’t let your husband boss you around”.”
No…it’s not funny how that doesn’t offend people…you know why? Because women had to be told that so men would stop beating them…sexually forcing themselves on them because they had the “right” to sex with their wife no matter what the wife said. Because for generations women couldn’t even leave the house without permission.
I’ll let you think over what Jo said so you can use this intellect you claimed, by comparison, to have in such superior quantity and quality to figure out why what Matt said in his entire blog is nothing even remotely close to your example or a call for men to not be submissive.
I apologize Charles and Jo for typing my response on my phone, where the page appeared much differently. Anyways…. No you really did miss the point being made. It is very simple, and you are digging way to deep. It seems as if this is either your self proclaimed forum to hate men or open feminist season on all men blog’s regardless of the article. You go on and on about men “raping” and “throwing their dicks around”, when in no way did Matt ever refer to this sort of behavior. Although, isn’t that what the stereotypical male figure is supposed to do? And, aren’t all women whores behind closed doors based on porn? Sarcasm? Recall him stating “If I want something, I’ll tell her. I consult with her before making many decisions — both major and minor — but she doesn’t make “rules” for me like I’m her son.”…. THIS my friends, is the ENTIRE basis of the article! I also remember him saying something along the lines of ” A man has no right to tell his partner she will not be going out with said person or group of friends on the basis of “Because I said so”, and vice-versa goes for wife/ female partner. However, with that said the latter is the one that seems to happen all too often. Which seems to be the inspiration in-which Matt drew from.
He’s not referring to immature adult men who force their will upon their wives. He once again clearly pronounces this in the article by putting a big fat NOTICE sign next to ” I’m not saying that the man should be the boss. Being a leader doesn’t mean being a “boss.”. Leadership, in this context is an agreed upon direction, not a one sided dictatorship.
I’m sure Matt would agree, if you are associated with a “Man” who thinks he is a so called “Leader”, and he abuses his “Dick power” (as Jo put it, and Charles translated) by hurting women or doing what he wants when he wants, you should probably ask yourself why you are with or associated with this type of “Man”. Doesn’t the woman usually choose their mate/husband? You do have to still say “Yes, I want to be with you the rest of my life, and I trust that you won’t abuse me or my trust, because you are the one that I feel will make me a better person”? And doesn’t the man have to decide to ask the hand of the woman he feels will make him a better person, and a better leader ( for the sake of argument), to be his life partner? Seems to me like a formula for success. It also may be the way God wanted us to look at marriage. Isn’t that a novel idea?
I obviously realize this will make no sense to either of you, sense the only words you read in the entire article were “RAPE”, “DICK”, and “POWER”, even though my 3rd grade edumacation was unable to provide me with the same level of readability as you folks, cause I’s fo some reason just didn’t see those words anywhere. Oh Man! I told myself I wouldn’t do this.
“I wouldn’t lie to her. I wouldn’t sneak around her like a skulking school boy. If I want something, I’ll tell her. I consult with her before making many decisions — both major and minor — but she doesn’t make “rules” for me like I’m her son. If those guys had a different impression based on a short conversation about expensive beer, I regret it. And I apologize.”
This was in response to guys emailing him, apparently under the understanding that he is not the leader of the house. That were under the understanding that he could not buy a 150 dollar bottle of beer without her permission. He was making it clear that he did not need her permission. That he would call her, consult with her but in the end she doesn’t make the “rules” that he can do as he wants.
So if you are correct, doubtful, that this is basis of the article then the basis is sure I talk to her but I do what I want because I am the leader. The basis is these men are wrong, I do not have to deceive my wife because I am in control, I am the leader and in the end what I say goes.
By the way, we cellar about 300 dollars worth of beer a month. I wouldn’t even raise an eyebrow with the purchase of a 150 dollar bottle of beer. My husband is smart, I trust and respect him, if he thinks a bottle of beer is worth 150 dollars then I will assume that is a fact. No need to parse genders, we are two humans that happen to love and respect each other, greatly.
“Notice: I’m not saying that the man should be the boss. Being a leader doesn’t mean being a “boss.” But I don’t need to spend time dispelling the notion that men ought to be the boss, because, as we’ve covered, that notion doesn’t really exist.”
As we have covered that notion doesn’t really exist, what he had covered to that point was his opinion that men let women control their men so that notion doesn’t really exist. Google circular logic please.
I never said dick power nor did Charles translate anything I said to say dick power. You seem so obsessed with it that you are seeing it where it doesn’t exist.
I asked my husband to marry me, he said yes, no way I was going to let an amazing guy get away when there are so many men like you around, no thanks. He did ask my dad’s permission, god I love that man! Okay he did say he was going to marry me on our second date but it was more of a compliment so I am not calling it a proposal.
“I obviously realize this will make no sense to either of you, sense the only words you read in the entire article were “RAPE”, “DICK”, and “POWER”, ” I love when people do this, I know this won’t make any sense to you….with the implication of intellectual prowess. Sometimes, and I know this is crazy, sometimes things do not make sense because it is nonsense.
My husband is my equal, he is not above or below, we are side by side. I get the feeling reading what Charles writes he feels the same way about his wife.
You miss the subversive nature of many of his comments.
But I’ll break it down in a way that you won’t be able to convolute it to try circular logic and failed premises to try and establish a intellectual high ground.
He spends his time explaining not why men shouldn’t be submissive…but instead why they SHOULD lead.
Notice he doesn’t use the terms: equal, negotiate, compromise.
He spends his time pretending that men by nature of being men are supposed to lead.
My wife and I are capable and intelligent adults…neither of us needs to lead the other.
He mangles history and biology to pretend that men are born leaders.
In case Tyler needs examples. I mean perhaps if we isolate the passage….
“No, dude, my wife is not my boss. I love her. She’s an incredibly strong woman. But she’s not my boss. Most importantly, she wouldn’t WANT to be my boss. She wanted to marry a man, not a henpecked hireling. I gave my life to her. We fused our souls together in the sacred act of matrimony. I’d take a bullet for my bride. I’d die to protect her. I give everything I have and everything I am to her. Everything I do right, I do for her, and my children, and God before all.”
She wouldn’t want to be my boss…She wanted to marry a man… Pretty much leaves you with if you are not in control you are not a man. A woman wants a man to control her. My husband is an amazing brilliant man but he is not a leader. I happen to be a natural born leader, that isn’t gender, that is DNA, I will even except the nurture in nature vs nurture, but it isn’t gender. So what if I keep the general running of the household? All that means is when a major decision needs to be made I present all relevant decision criteria. Very often he brings in did you consider this? Nope missed that completely, good point!
Really in the end our household runs perfectly because neither of us takes a narcissist approach to leadership. That is what Matt advocates in all of his posts, you are a man therefore you were born to lead and women were born to follow. An unfounded sense of exceptionalism is the basis of narcissism.
I’m sorry for making everyone so upset. I know everything’s supposed to be PC 100% of the time, and if it’s not it’s wrong. Right? …Wrong! Get real, and stop being so hypersensitive.
I’ll end by saying this, our understanding of the material is very different. I’m not sure if it’s an educational or moral difference in the way it comes off. I’ll let you decide that, while I stand behind the screen of the computer, my wall of protection. Undoubtedly, my opinion stands unchanged from the various rants, and I assume the same go’s for everyone else who banters on the internet. Since no ground is to be covered or agreed upon here, I will go about my ways unchanged. I will also raise my children the same, hoping they grow up as I did with the same values, and aren’t left paying for the kids you raised. BUT… Who knows, it could be the other way around. I doubt it, but you never know. Cheers
Who is upset? Well you clearly are and you are projecting. I could care less if you think being a knuckle dragger is the way to go. I only respond in case some passer by sees your idiotic spew and thinks well no one refutes it maybe he is right. There are enough ignorant people on this planet, It is my duty to help stem the tide.
Are you happily married? No? Perhaps that is why we are upsetting you so much.
Oh and you need not worry about supporting my children, first of all the two adults already have successful careers, one giving back through Teach for America, but even if they fell flat on their face they kind of have this successful business our family owns they could work for.
How about you?
Perhaps you read emotion into my responses when there was none?
Either way you did give me a chuckle. The only way your children will “pay” for how I raise my daughter is if your son tries to tell my daughter that she should let her husband lead because he is a man. She will simply look at him and point out how foolish and unsupported such a claim is.
But hey…maybe you are right and my teaching my daughter that a marriage is an equal partnership where no one is a follower will destroy society.
And…by the way, Tyler. This is the ENTIRE premise:
“The culture encourages men to assume a submissive posture and shrink away from the challenges of being the captains of their ships.”
I don’t know if you know what this phrase means….but it certainly appears that he is promoting that men should be in charge…this in no way promotes an equal partnership. Instead one would use the analogy of being co-owners of a business.
Let me further clarify by simplifying.
If you read his post in its entirety. It’s very obvious that he promotes the man as being in charge…as he never makes even the slightest case for the woman to be. This is the fundamental issue. He pretends that only the man may lead.
This differs from what I say in that there is no viable evidence that can be displayed that men are inherently fit to lead.
If a married couple comes to the agreement that he does, in fact, possess leadership skills neccesary to guide the family…then it is an agreement. But there is an instance Matt excluded by the very nature of his post. That what if the woman is better suited to lead? is this not a viable option? Did he put out a call for women of leadership to captain their ships? No…why? Because, one can only assume, that he sees men as destined to lead.
If a couple determines that a leader need be established based on an evaluation of each party then it is an agreement. But insisting that leadership be designated by no more than genitalia is silly.
More clear?
This is sad. The writer of this blog wrote an article that agrees with Scripture, i.e. the way that God designed marriage to work, and it has been twisted into meaning men should be in control of their wives, and women should just give in to their spouse all the time. The writer did not have this as his intent. The Word of God tells us that women are to submit to their husbands not let them control them, but to humbly allow the leadership decisions ultimately be the choice of the men. This requires an incredible amount of humility and love from the wife in order to trust her husband with those things.
One thing that must be understood is the word “leader,” is that the word is used very rarely in the Bible compared to the words translated as “serve, or servant” The word is used more times in conjunction with leadership than the words “lead, leadership, leader, etc.” showing time and again (even said by Jesus on more than one occasion) that in order to lead, one must serve, i.e. do everything they can for others good. Leadership is not about self, and what you want to accomplish, but what needs to be accomplished for others, and your giving of yourself for their good.
With men the command is “Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church, and gave Himself for it…” If studied for the purpose of finding out the full meaning of this text it becomes clear that this requires an incredible amount of love from the husband (indeed, giving up everything he has to see his wife and family glorify God) and he is expected to lead his family. How in the world is he supposed to do all that? For that matter, how is the wife expected to submit and let the man lead? The woman’s position is incredibly vulnerable because there is the potential that the man will make a mistake, the man’s position is incredibly intimidating and scary because he has to figure out with his wife what the best course of action would be, and use her input and go to her for it because she is just as smart as he is and it will impact them both, and ultimately he is responsible for the results of the decisions he makes. Both positions are incredibly difficult, and in fact cannot be accomplished by the individuals if they are not united in the goal of seeing God glorified in their spouse’s lives, regardless of personal cost. Marriage is not about you, and marriage is not about me, it is about seeing God glorified in the my spouse, and for my spouse it is seeing God glorified in me, regardless of cost for either one of us.
I didn’t set up what the Bible says, but I do need to follow it because it is the best way. I cannot fathom how difficult it is to submit to a flawed man, and most, if not all, of the women I know who understand what is really required of men see the men’s position as being the more difficult one. That seems right, that both should see the difficulties and humility required of the other in order for the relationship to function as it was intended. Regardless of how society changes, the principles in the Bible do not change, nor does God’s plan for marriage. Couples who follow these principles together find themselves in a loving relationship where both give everything for each other, and hold themselves and each other accountable to follow those things, recognizing that in nearly every conflict each person contributes, and not just one or the other.
If you do not believe, or follow the Bible, that is your choice. I am simply intending to show the writer’s thoughts are based on clear Scripture, and are not debasing, nor downplaying either role as husband or wife, nor are they leftover ideas from the 1950’s, they are roles that date back to the dawn of humanity.
Thank you. 🙂
And the way you expressed it? I cannot argue. You made it evidently clear that your views are directly from biblical context.
What I do not appreciate is his mangling of sociology, history, biology and psychology to mask his Christian views.
He mentions god a few times. He does not relate his instances to biblical context.
Your view…one must realize comes from your view of the bible. And while I do not believe, or agree with its views…I cannot correct you as the Bible does indeed reflect what you say.
His view dons the mask of psuedo-science and philosophy to attempt to increase its viability.
Thanks, John; well said. So many get hung up on ‘dominance’ or ‘control’ issues, whereas Scripture is utterly practical and reliable from the *functional* perspective of an orderly, successful marriage/family.
Every organization/business/home needs a clearly-defined system of operation for making decisions and accomplishing objectives; without leadership/direction, there is chaos and dysfunction (sadly all too common these days).
So very many issues have an underlying refusal to accept the reality that Life Isn’t Fair! We were not created as clones. But how many adults are stuck in a childish resentment that their siblings or friends were [fill in the blank]… better-looking, more popular, superior athletes, got a bigger piece of cake, more toys or attention… etc. etc. So, they go through life with the Victim Mentality – perpetually dissatisfied and ever resentful of others whom they view as ‘luckier’ – instead of making the best of what they have, and even learning from others’ mistakes and thereby avoiding many problems.
Respectful discussion and consensus as to what is best for US – not just ‘me’ OR ‘you’ – is far superior and vastly more productive than perpetual competition.
http://www.womenformen.org
Hello there Matt, (:
Every relationship is different. We are all individuals with different needs. My needs are probably not exactly the same as yours. What works for you and your relationship might be like nails on a chalkboard to mine… This article appears like a “one size fits all” opinion on what men and women want. If it works for you and your wife doesn’t mind and there is mutual respect… Well then I am happy for you. Don’t put all other men and women in that same box. We are not all attracted to the same things you are. (:
In a relationship both people need to be held accountable, respected and they need to act like adults.
There are many fabulous healthy marriages where the woman takes on the more active “boss” leadership role. There are also many fabulous marriages where the man takes on this role. And guess what? There are also many fabulous egalitarian marriages where leadership is shared. Leadership can come in either the male or female form. Some men don’t want to take that role. Some women don’t want to take on that role.
It depends on the two people involved in the relationship and is based on the needs and desires of those two people.
When you say “man up” I say adult up. Men don’t want to be treated like a child. Women don’t like it either. Most healthy people don’t like to be treated in any condescending fashion. I don’t want to be married to a child either. I want to be married to a responsible adult. I sure hope my husband wants that from me.
A woman leader in a relationship doesn’t necessarily mean she is a man abusing belittling wife. This is true for all those men who act as the leaders in their relationships as well. Just because a man acts as the head of the household doesn’t mean he is a bossy misogamist who expects his wife to do his beckon call.
I will repeat myself and say relationships are based on mutual respect. Respect is not about dominating or controlling another person.
I agree with you if the term “boss” is used in a condescending or disrespectful way by a husband… Well to all those men out there… Knock it off and adult up. Respect your significant other or wife. Take responsibility for your actions and words just like your wife needs to take responsibility for hers.
Now I do call my husband the “Boss Man” in some situations. There are some situations I don’t want to take control over. He is better at it in certain circumstances . I say that to him with the upmost confidence in his ability to handle the concern at hand. However he calls me the “Boss Woman” in others. There are some situations I am better equipped to handle and take the active leadership role . We relinquish and surrender to each other. It takes a strong person to know when to let go. In my opinion, real leaders know when to follow… And sometimes, gender roles get in the way of this; when someone is ill equipped to lead but unable to relinquish the reins because of strongly held beliefs/ accepted cultural norms.
These gender beliefs are often used by these people to control, manipulate and dominate. This is not healthy or acceptable in ANY relationship.
Leadership is not synonymous to dictatorship. A person should never be treated like a doormat. I think the majority of us know this, but there are those men and women who seem to forget it. If a man wants to be the head of the household and wants a happy marriage he better make sure he is receptive and responsive to the needs and opinions of his wife and visa versa…And he/she better find a partner who is okay with that arrangement. So people should “adult up” and find a relationship where both peoples needs are met.
Well Done. I keep having this mental image of what would happen if my hubbs called me the boss…
Really? I get to be the boss today? Thank you Sir! Peanut butter sandwiches for all.
All totally tongue in cheek, but all the same, I’m glad that this is so far outside of our reality that it is humorous.
People spend so many years becoming adults cutting their teeth on the people close to them that power struggles are mistaken for being the meat of the relationship. When the power struggle isn’t there, when you aren’t vying for a leadership position, the rest seems to iron itself out.
Please stop telling us what marriage is supposed to be. Just because something works for you, doesn’t mean you’ve figure out the answer to everyone else’s marriage. The most respectful thing you can do is enjoy what you have and keep your mouth shut. No one wants to be lectured on how to have a successful relationship under such ridiculous assumptions. Leadership has a lot more to do with personality than genitals and both men and women can be equally effective leaders.
Have you considered it is only a polite way of saying “Matt only a loser would want to spend time with you after work. NFW I’ll waste my time being bored to death with a major league a%%h073 like you”?
Of course you haven’t because you are a pompous little piece of … um … manure.
Based on this blog post you aren’t particularly intelligent either.
If you don’t like his blogs, then why bother to read them? This comment was very rude and not necessary.
Life never fits in neat little boxes. Some here are for and others are against the case made in this piece. We all love free speech. Yay! We know what side you have taken! Will someone address why the happiness of women has persistently declined over the past decades in survey after survey while that of men has essentially remained the same? Let me beat you to the punch for the beloved trouble makers among us here. Yes, men can put up with a lot of sh… For the serious here it is a serious question. I think few here would state men have basically changed all that much. Are there any elephants in the room? Perhaps caricatures of the roles of men and women should be set aside. Neither Saudia Arabia nor The Harvard faculty lounge we should be.
Amen, brother!
From, A Woman
Wow – so many people immediately jumping to the worst possible scenario, putting words in Matt’s mouth. I don’t see him anywhere advocating for spousal abuse or anything like it – though that’s immediately where many commenters are jumping to. Sad.
I think Athol Kay at Married Man Sex Life sums it up well – marriages work best with a Captain/First Officer dynamic. The captain is ultimately responsible for the fate of the crew and the ship, but he cannot do it alone, and relies on the first officer for sound advice (imagine Captain Picard when he asks Riker “Options, Number One?”), to keep the crew in line and the ship running smoothly, and to guide the ship in the captain’s absence. Continuing the Star Trek metaphor, Riker was not subservient, nor was he a pushover or otherwise subjected to abuse from Picard. But when push came to shove, the responsibility to lead fell on the shoulders of the Captain.
I have heard this example before but I don’t feel that it is a very poor one. It is a relationship where one commands and the other obeys. One is superior and the other inferior. A husband and wife relationship should be much closer than this. Why not use the example given in the bible, a husband is to have love for his wife equal to that of Christ who died for his bride the church. Christ gave everything for his bride(church) The bride(wife) submits to her husband as she would to Christ who died for his bride. This paints a much more accurate picture. A captain is not called upon to sacrifice for his first mate, nor is he said to have oneness with. Let’s just use God’s example. All others fall short.
correction meant to say that the example of captain and first mate is a very poor one.
How can you say this, ” I believe that men have a duty to lead, and I believe that there are many, many women who agree with me.” and this “No, let men be people, and women be people, and let the differences between them be nothing more than anatomical and cosmetic.” in the same article? You don’t actually believe in equality.
Men have a duty to lead? That’s ridiculous. Each member of a marriage has a duty to share leadership. You also refer to youself as the captain of his ship. Yuck.
Thank you for this post. I appreciate everything you have said. Do not let all of the negative comments get you down. I believe this is a very important subject that the Bible talks about but we so often gloss over. Keep up the good work!
God bless
Interesting comments. So I guess since we’re a ‘democracy’ it makes no sense to have a President who “leads” us and has the “final say”on things.
Ladies…do you ever feel contempt for your husband? Disdain? Do you ever wonder what happened to your attraction to him? Do you wonder why you wanted to jump his bones any second before you married and now you don’t really want to very often? He’s the same guy, right? So what happened?
So there’s no difference between a man who knows what he wants and does things his way and has a mission in life, and a guy who sets no goals, has no ambition, doesn’t have the capacity to lead anyone, and instead is a follower in most outlets of his life? Do you love it when you ask, “Where should we eat dinner tonight?” on a date night and he says, “Whatever you want to do, honey?” Or do you miss when he would plan and ‘lead’ your nights out? Are you happy he proposed to you, maybe even planning a proposal, or do you wish you would have taken the lead and asked him?
As a woman, a man who has the ability to lead is attractive, among other things. He’s also quite suited to be a husband, not to mention a good father. I know that since I’ve been married that every Saturday morning, when my husband is waiting around for my every decision–what are we going to do, where are we going to go, when are we going to leave–I hate it. I hate it with all of me. I ask these questions to get you to question what you think you know about the “nonexistence” of gender roles and about “equality.” I began to question it this year and now so many things that I didn’t understand are making sense. I encourage you to stop thinking you know all there is to know about how marriage ‘should’ be and stop dismissing the ‘outdated’ wisdom of old.
Let me get this straight, you have a jacked up marriage so you are sure what Matt speaks of will work? You look at how a lot of us described our equal marriage and think that your mess of a marriage is the same thing? Lord!
Not that it has anything to do with anything but I want my husband as much today as the first day I met him. He is at a meeting and I am really hoping he isn’t so tired when he gets home. Meh, even if he is he will find strength.
How do you get being equal to setting no goals. Sorry your husband is a loser but not all men are like that. My husband has never set foot in any institution of higher learning yet he is a self taught coder that makes six figures, yeah what a slacker, he really needs direction!
Where should we eat dinner tonight? I was thinking Mexican. I heard of a new place. Hum, what is the cuisine…..we usually go there, god he is good at finding amazing places. Planning a date night? Thank god we both agree the term and concept date night is about the dumbest thing on earth! He is your husband for crying out loud! every night is date night! Sure if we never made time for ourselves we would have to schedule such things but that you cling to date night tends to make me think that is more telling of the state of your marriage than whether he makes decisions or not.
So far as making decisions go, I take it you aren’t a leader either. I am a leader, I suppose that is why I am put in those positions at work. Part of being a good leader is being able to get the rest of your team to make decisions. A leader doesn’t control, a leader guides. I wouldn’t call myself a leader at home, I get enough of that at work.
Meh, I feel like I am rambling here. To be succinct, you do not respect your husband! That is your problem, it has nothing to do with gender roles, or who leads, you do not respect your husband and he no longer respects you.
Being equal does not mean one does all the work, makes all the decisions, being equal means everything is shared equally. No one holds the ultimate power in the relationship. We respect each other and because of that respect we aren’t going anywhere.
I don’t know what is more sad, your marriage or that you think mine is worse.
Oh my goodness you sound like my mother. Autistic son(s), check. Self-taught coder husband who make six figures and never finished college, check. Except I think my parents are at least a little into the gender roles thing due to their church environment. And my mother doesn’t work…I have eight younger siblings, all homeschooled.
Anyway. I really like what I’ve read of your comments around here. ^_^
I am an IT accountant so we can talk about work without that communication gap. Oh I also taught him VBA last weekend. Made his day. Okay I also do stats, data mining, whatever my boss needs to know. I want to get business cards that say my job description is magic eight ball but our COO won’t let me. 😦
We actually fall into a lot of gender rolls but because it makes sense . I don’t work nearly the hours he does so I clean, do laundry. He is a much better cook than me in most areas so he does cook. The biggest non-gender thing is I deal with all the finances and negotiate stuff, cars…. I am an accountant, doesn’t it make sense that if a business pays me to help them make decisions I am pretty good at it?
Oh, I sew. 🙂
I’m in IT support and software development. I love working with computers. Much easier than working with people. My father has taught me a lot and sometimes we just stand around and geek out about programming.
I’ve done so many different things at work. For a long time, pinning down my job description was impossible because I did so many different things. I finally landed solidly in IT. It’s like, anything I want to do, I can do (as long as it doesn’t require visual talent because I am really not a visual person like my incredible artistic brother.) I’ve written sixteen novels and over a hundred short stories. I’ve played the piano for 17 years, written hours upon hours of music, and recorded over 100 minutes of purely improvised pieces. I’ve made thousands of dollars of profit buying, fixing, and selling Porsches. I started Algebra at age 10 and graduated high school at 16 and ignored most of what I’d learned for the next couple years, and still got 2080 on the SAT test at 18 without studying or reviewing anything for it. I can memorize an entire 20-verse chapter of the Bible in half an hour and recite it perfectly the next day. I decided six months ago that I wanted to start programming, and within three months I was doing it full time. I love what my mind can do, how fast I can learn things…I hate that it separates me from people. 😦 Sometimes I think trading my special abilities for the ability to connect with people would be worth it.
I love cooking, I make up my own recipes, and I’m really not very good at dealing with finances and making deals or confronting people and all that. Sounds like I need to find a young lady who’s a lot like you! And, haha, I have done sewing too and enjoyed it.
Hey, maybe instead of cluttering up Matt’s posts we could take it to Facebook, if you have a Facebook account.
Nick,
No I do not feel contempt or disdain towards my husband . I love him more and more everyday. I feel like we are a power team. Both my husband and I are leaders outside the home professionally and have a pretty egalitarian marriage. I don’t have a problem at all making decisions and nor does he. We have a very happy strong marriage. It sounds like you are very happy with yours. I am happy that you have found your match. I have found mine too. Different styles work for different people. There is more than one style that works.
That’s a great looking straw man, Nick.
” I encourage you to stop thinking you know all there is to know about how marriage ‘should’ be and stop dismissing the ‘outdated’ wisdom of old.”
The wisdom of the old should always be evaluated based on the environment in which it was gained and the changes that have occurred since its conception. To follow the “wisdom of the old” without looking at it with a critical mind is not wisdom…it is intellectual laziness.
“As a woman, a man who has the ability to lead is attractive, among other things. He’s also quite suited to be a husband, not to mention a good father. I know that since I’ve been married that every Saturday morning, when my husband is waiting around for my every decision–what are we going to do, where are we going to go, when are we going to leave–I hate it. I hate it with all of me. I ask these questions to get you to question what you think you know about the “nonexistence” of gender roles and about “equality.” ”
Interesting scenario you posit.
By your logic one would assume that a man who does not “captain his ship” is a man who wanders aimlessly unable to make a single decision of place a moments input.
Comparing a banal situation such as: where are we going to eat? Or, what movie will we watch? Does not even come close to embracing the full aspect of what it means to have gender equality.
I tire of people misrepresenting the idea of gender equality to mean the idea that there are no gender based differences. Anyone who says there are no gender based differences is a fool.
The point made is that being a man or woman does not automatically make you more suited for roles in society. A man is no more suited for leading than a woman based on his gender. His personality may indeed make him more suited…but a woman may indeed have better leadership skills. The point being that one cannot accurately depict a scenario in which all men are greater leaders than all women…and this can be said of most situations.
To suggest a man leads or he is aimless is just as sexist as saying a woman cannot lead. I am not aimless in marriage. Each of us contributes to the parenting of our children and the decisions made as a couple. This black and white scenario you posit does not exist in all beings.
Well said Charles
The heart I hear is for balance and leadership. The best leader took a moment in time to switch thinking about what this means… He washed His disciples feet. A great leader is also a great servant. Thank you for this article. I hope we can all better learn how to be good leaders and empower others to lead when the time is right as well. Wisdom to all those in tough marriage situations.
I completely agree with you that a great leader is also a great servant. Unfortunately Matt said nothing of that sort here.
I apologize–I didn’t mean that comment to be directed only at the women who commented here, but who may be reading. Many women I know and women I see around me, even at the grocery store, exhibit these feelings toward their husbands. And with the divorce rate what it is, and most of those divorces being initiated by women, I asked those questions to point out that something is wrong with our ideas of what marriage is supposed to be. I’m sure many people would tell me I should be happy with the “equality” in my marriage. But actually I am a natural leader and want to take the lead in many areas of my life, yet when I do and my husband sits back and let’s me, it frustrates me. And someone called my husband a loser–but what things did I say he does that make him so? Shouldn’t those things be things I love? According to many women who have observed my marriage, they should. I’m happy every night is a date night for you and your man makes 6 figures. I don’t need that, though I think it would be great. But my husband makes around 30,000 a year and we have three kids. We do have to plan nights together. I do have to work to respect him. I do have to work to lay down my desire to lead and let him pick up leadership. I have to pray for my heart to be right, to respect my husband in spite of what I think he should be doing, to be content in any circumstance. Isn’t this blog a Christian blog? Is the blogger doing anything that goes against the Bible? I didn’t see that. What I do see is a generation of people unhappy with marriage and not sure why. I think the answer lies in part in our expectations and attitudes about marriage and gender roles, and I appreciate this article speaking to that.
And now you are using a factor that cannot be accurately used to portray the degree of happiness of women in compared to history.
You use the divorce rate. You do realize that the social acceptance of divorce is a new concept in the entirety of western marriage history? That in times past a woman who was divorced was ostracized and considered “damaged goods” and therefore was placed at the fringes of culture and degraded. This did wonders to lock miserable women into the marriages that they were in and keep them from seeking a better life and partner.
When comparing data it does wonders to account for the variables.
You described your husband as a loser, sure you didn’t use those words but you said he has no goals, no ambition, lacks the ability to lead anyone, that is a loser. After all your last paragraph you describe him as waiting on your orders every Saturday, you have to plan your date nights….
We could easily live on 30,000, our income is not why every night is date night, it is because we love each other and the other’s happiness is always important, not just on scheduled date nights. We do not need to get out of the house, away from the kids, to enjoy the other.
You are not a natural leader, if you were, your husband would take a more active role in making decisions. You are a control freak, you want things done your way and your husband doesn’t do things your way so you do them yourself and then put him down for not taking control.
Your marriage is not equal, I am not sure what even makes you think that. You have taken all input away from your husband, you are “the boss” Matt describes. Could I rail over my husband like you do, sure I could, and he loves me enough that he would put up with it. Thing is I love him enough to never emasculate him like you did your husband. Why would I destroy everything I love about my husband, that is what you did and apparently you are completely unaware of your actual part in the dance.
You can’t just give him control, for one I doubt your personality would allow it. Second because you have controlled everything for so long the poor man does not know how to please you. He would just take it as a sign you have given up in the marriage and he will withdraw further.
You have some serious issues in your marriage, you really should be spending your time discussing this with a family therapist/counselor/priest instead of going on a blog telling people you know it all when clearly you haven’t a clue.
This reply was uncalled for
Nick,
I don’t know you, but I sense a strong kind woman who is desiring to make her marriage work.I respect that.
In my opinion,(just an opinion (; ), marriage is about becoming one and seeing another’s needs and growth as just as important as your own needs and growth areas. I sense from your above writings that you try to do this on a daily basis. I think this is admirable. I think marriages often fail because those involved forget to see their partners needs. Women generally point out when there is a problem. There is actually scientific research to back this up. If interested check out the Gottman institute. Mr. Gottman has done the most scientific research in the US on marriages. His research is fascinating. According to him, when there is problem or tension in a marriage , the women will put it in the open first. The man will know it is there, but will generally not be the first to bring it to the table. I think this might be why you see more women initiating divorce . This of course is just my hypothesis.
If interested though, I seriously recommend checking out the books by John Gottman. His books for me were very interesting. He can tell with about 90% accuracy whether a couple will make it or not by observing them interact over mundane things for 5 minutes. He has done all sorts of studies and research. Totally fascinating stuff.
Best wishes to you,
Kari
I could be totally off here Nick. Feel free to correct me, but when I try to listen through your writing, it sounds like you would like your husband to be more present and engaged.
I am not so sure what is so hard to understand about someone having the final say. I assume the commenters always agree 100% with each other, or have a great system that works, maybe taking turns having the final say when they occasionally disagree. But what about the rest of us? I used the example of the President to say that even in a ‘democracy’ (which isn’t really what this is, but that’s beside the point) that sometimes there is not going to be agreement, and so we’ve appointed someone to have ‘final say.’ In a marriage there are two people, and with that one:one, well, sometimes you’re not going to agree. You’re going to be in disagreement. Then what do you do? According to the Bible, as a wife, you are to submit to your husband. In my mind, that means to defer to his decision. It doesn’t mean don’t deliberate, don’t share your opinion–you were created to be his helpmeet. But in the end, if you still disagree, as a wife, lay it down and let his decision be final. What else is possible in a 1:1 when there is strong disagreement? The only other possibilities are the husband deferring to the wife, in effect, submitting to her authority, or the parties not making a decision and holding it off or taking turns. I honestly don’t see that happening in any marriages around me. In most marriages I see the wife making the majority of big decisions. When the couple disagrees, I see husbands deferring/submitting to their wife’s authority. I don’t see any Biblical backing for this. This isn’t to say that submitting to your husband’s leadership won’t be difficult or downright akin to bearing a cross, because often, and in many marriages, it will be.
If you believe that life and marriage are all about being happy, then of course, you will disagree. I just invite anyone reading to continue to learn and stop thinking you know all you need to know about how marriage should work. That’s what I have done and it has benefited me. It’s not scary to learn more about someone’s opinion or stance on something–until it begins to change your mind. Our society prides itself on open minds but I don’t see a lot of that here. I have had the exact same mindset as many of the commenters in the past, yet my mind has been changed, and it has been for my benefit. Assume what you want from this comment. I just hope that the true meaning can be gleaned. God bless you.
Yes the president has the final say and how is that working for our country? Look at Obamacare. He did not listen to the majority of Americans who said yes, health insurance is a mess but your way will not work. They begged, pleaded, voted representatives out, and in the end, he is the boss, he wants this and damn the people who are subject to it. Lots of Americans had ideas how to fix it, portability across state lines, no longer tying it to your employer by changing the tax codes, high deductible plans that were much cheaper and gave transparency to actual costs so that a free market system could actually work.
He ignored all that because he knew better. He had the final say.
It works the same way in a household. If the husband will not listen to reason, to data, accept that he may be wrong then the final say is catastrophic and leads to a lot more divorces that our system.
Using the government again as an example. Say my husband gets the role of President, which is silly because my husband is a lot smarter and reasonable than our President, still for an example he is president. He says Obamacare works, I put out my reasons it will not work. He either does or does not bring data to prove my assertions wrong. If I am found to be more right than wrong we do it my way, if he is more right than wrong we do it his way. There can only be one correct reasoned decision therefore there is no need for a final say, that data itself is the final say.
Our marriage works because we are both rational emotional healthy adults who do not pull emotional appeals, appeals to authority, or any other irrational logic. The data points control the decision and neither or us have any desire to be stupid about things. Sure if one or both partners have baggage it can’t work but it isn’t the system that is flawed, the flaw lies in the person and really those people, no system can work.
So divorce is not a function of decision structure, it is 100% the players involved.
You don’t see open minds? See this is a often misused statement. An open mind is not a mind that can be swayed with every argument placed before it. An open mind is one that takes in the whole. An open mind is willing to observe and evaluate more than one factor.
Many of us have said that our issue is not with the idea that some need leaders. Our issue is with anyone claiming that men are natural born leaders. And my issue is with teaching women that they are born to submit to their husband.
The point being that if one person has the final say…then the reality is that all decisions require their agreeance. Even when they “allow” the woman to decide…if they choose to disagree and put their foot down the woman is to submit.
Perhaps you are unable to understand that adults are capable of negotiating in a disagreement. At time my wife and I compromise…I give a little…she gives a little. Neither of us “has our way” in this situation. Our disagreement was based on the fact that we could not see eye to eye…but as there is no “leader” we must negotiate…compromise. No one need have the final say.
My issue is with the idea that any one marriage model is the ideal for all.
Furthermore. My biggest issue is with him taking a biblical concept and mangling history, biology, philosophy and psychology to fit his model.
He gave examples based on a mans biological construction and the concept that men were leaders during the time of our ancestors. This is not supporting his argument with biblical context…it’s misrepresenting history and biology.
There is no male based “leader” gene. The reason men were in charge of our ancestors had to do with the need for survival. It had to do with the environment and society…the fact that a man could dominate his partner with nothing to stop him. Our society and environment are vastly different. The reasons for male designated leaderships have faded. If he wants to use biblical concepts to craft his marriage, fine, but I am disgusted at his mangling of other subjects to “fit” his point.
Biologically men also lead. Evo Biology and Evo Psychology tell us so. This whole doing away with gender roles is new and dangerous.
….you really take the displays of evo biology to reflect that men should lead? You do realize that it’s a study of history? But that it does not seperate behavioral psychology or social influences? All that is stated in such concepts is an observance of what has occurred. It leaves out the current developments we see now…in essence you are mingling your biblical view with scientific assertions and eliminating the variables and true observations…bravo.
The next time you make an assertion understand the fill scope of the field you are misrepresenting,
Furthermore, are you saying that a change along an evolutionary path is inherently bad? Really think about that.
The truth being that you are also leaving out the fact that evo biology and social evolution show clear evidence of this shift having been occurring since man first began to develop larger communities and a more functional brain.
And then you had to go spoil it …
A man cannot lead without a woman who submits and follows. Unless you’re advocating force, which I know you’re not. And that’s where feminism rears its ugly head, yes that feminism that you are so quick to discount.
Matt Walsh is the boss.
A wife isn’t the boss… unless she’s mad her husband is looking at pornography.
Then she’ll be the boss, right up to justifying her divorce and depriving the kids of their father.
Try again, Matt.
Oh yea, we cant forget about that nasty business can we. Matt gets alot of back circles for his articles.
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If you lead they will follow. The bible teaches wives are to be submissive in ALL things to her husband. No qualification, no if he does this or that then I will follow. If you are a bible believing Christian that is how God ants His families to operate. Any else is sin and egalitarianism.
Another concept to consider is Captain/First Officer type of relationship.
Your single aren’t you? :p
Just look at his avatar. His view of women is clearly displayed.
Yeah that is what prompted the you are single comment. Ain’t much to any woman who would put up with a man like that!
There is nothing wrong with being single. In fact, in the text, it says it’s better to live on a rooftop than as the husband of a contentious woman.
Better to be single than married to a man who thinks that avatar is appropriate.
@Charles
Your attempt at ad hominem does not cancel his point.
Oh? It does not reflect the logical conclusion that a woman is to submit to a mans every need regardless of situation? This is indeed what he espouses. Or do I really need to display the logical progression?
I think we have established I don’t keep a bible on my desk. Still just from memory the bible advocates respectful submission and the man’s respect for the act of submission. That avatar does not reflect that, it reflects the deviant idea of submission that I believe the bible is fairly clear, is a sin.
So if your avatar reflects deviant behavior and you speak of submission, wouldn’t his point actually be I am using the bible to justify my sin?
So erecting a strawman by assuming the extreme as the norm is not intellectual dishonesty?
I will also add this scripture verse:
1 peter 3:3-6
“3 Likewise you wives, be submissive to your husbands, so that some, though they do not obey the word, may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see your reverent and chaste behavior. 3 Let not yours be the outward adorning with braiding of hair, decoration of gold, and wearing of fine clothing, 4 but let it be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable jewel of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God’s sight is very precious. 5 So once the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves and were submissive to their husbands, 6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you are now her children if you do right and let nothing terrify you.”
So unless the husband commands the wife to commit what is clearly a sin he shall be obeyed and she shall trust god with the outcome.
I get you guys just love to smack people with the bible but we are talking about how disrespectful his avatar is to women! She is naked other than a thong and an apron saying a real woman, not even a good woman, but his idea of real, does not let his man leave the home hungry or horny.
I mean are you seriously saying the bible backs up that bullshit? I have read it cover to cover and I have never seen god or his son say to treat women in that manner.
Try reading for meaning before you jump into attack mode.
Under the inspiration of the Holy spirit Paul wrote those words in the same way the law and the prophets came which is through the Spirit. Either you accept God’s word or not.
It infuriates you I know. The truth is the truth.
The words don’t infuriate me, what saddens me is you are using them do defend a creep and his sleazy avatar.
Nope. You are just shaming him to prefering being alone than to dwell with a contentious woman. The scriptures tell of this:
Proverbs 21:9
It’s better to live in a corner on the roof than to share a house with a contentious woman.
Proverbs 21:9
It’s better to live in a corner on the roof than to share a house with a contentious woman.
Proverbs 21:19
“It is better to live in a desert land
Than with a contentious and vexing woman.”
Proverbs 27:15
A constant dripping on a day of steady rain
And a contentious woman are alike
Shaming him, exactly how did I compel him to use that avatar?
By the way, since you seem to need to imply I am contentious, how? Seems to me I am not controversial or augmentative at all. I just think having a picture of what appears to be a whore doesn’t seem very Christ like. Something you don’t seem to want to address.
Oh, asked my husband, he says I am not contentious either, guess you were wrong there.
Aww he poured me a beer, I guess I will get the next one, because I love and respect him.
Jo. Come on you can be better than this. What right have you to decide which avatar is creepy or not?
And secondly I am reinforcing the point that Boxer made originally. If you do not fit that definition why be offended?
Offended, nah, just kind of hard to take someone seriously who thinks that is clever.
Anyway, lovely chatting with you but I have food to prepare for tomorrow, so….
See ya!
Sigh* Are you so fickle as even give a damn about appearance?
Yet not looking at the heart.
How do you see one’s heart from a picture?
I was mistaken. I thought you were referring to Boxer.
Firstly.
You defend your questioning of my intellect by referencing a biblical concept that is NOT expressed in his comment.
Perhaps you should take a moment and realize that what I said did not question scripture. He claimed that a woman submits to her man in all things without any qualifications for this rule. Yet, you clearly stated that the woman must only obey if the husband is not commanding her to commit a sin. That seemingly small difference is vastly important.
Your reference places guidelines on what a man is able to command his wife to do…it restricts him to biblical behaviors that are outlined, and as you made clear, that a man must ensure his concern for his wife is displayed. His claim offers none of these boundaries.
Furthermore, an avatar which depicts a woman in such a fashion reduces her to an object of sex and servitude. The “it’s only a joke” defense is a weak facade used to conceal the fact that one truly believes this.
Now..lets look at it from an aspect of relativity. He has a picture of a nearly nude woman with an apron..saying a real woman never…the word never is important….lets her husband leave the house hungry and horny. This reflects an idea that a woman should always be willing to have sex with her husband the moment the mood strikes him. This of course means that she is to have sex with him even if she does not wish to that day. I could go further…but I do not feel the need.
“No qualification, no if he does this or that then I will follow. If you are a bible believing Christian that is how God ants His families to operate. Any else is sin and egalitarianism.”
Not if he does this or that then I will follow. He’s clearly positing a scenario where a wife is not allowed to evaluate the nature of her husbands commands or leadership.
You are defending someone you should not be defending. You should be offended that someone would use the idea of Christ-like leadership to defend a dictatorship…not the relationship you outlined.
He is referring to when marriage has already taken place after matrimony is sealed.
The qualification is taken before the woman decides to marry. But once married the woman is obligated to obey which is partly what submission is about.
Ephesians 5:22-23
“22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.”
He is objecting to conditional obedience on the part of the wife unless he conforms to her definition of holiness. That I see as rebellion on her part and an attempt to make him a chauffeur rather than a true head of household.
That’s why I showed you and all the commenter here that even if the husband himself is disobedient to god that wife ought to obey and submit to husband in order to win him over. I can attest to the success of that fact.
In doing so God can then deal with the disobedient husband and convict him of sin. Bringing him to repentance.
All women who would like to know what biblical submission is about should go there:
sunshinemaryandthedragon.wordpress.com
See my bible verse from peter above:
Qualification should occur before marriage. However once married the wife must obey and submit to husband even if he himself is disobedient to the word of god in order to win him over.
With regards to sex wife should not deny her husband nor husband his wife:
1 Corinthians 7:5
Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.”
Hm…I think if either party is unwilling to have sex at the instance…and truly is unwilling for any myriad of reasons, then neither party holds any right to expect sex. Each instance needs to be in full willingness and cooperation. If either party does not wish to engage in said act at the juncture….then the other must respect such.
As far as obtaining evaluations before marriage. The unfortunate reality being that some abusive spouses are extremely talented at hiding such natures until their spouse is well under their finacial control or other controls.
This is where I take no stock in biblical instructions.
A woman always has the right to say no to sex, as does the man. If it becomes a problem with intimacy and a sense of fulfillment then they should seek therapy….but a husband never has the right to force sex with his wife….and fortunately the courts are in agreeance.
But I digress, while its a valid debate in this topic it is not entirely relevant to the subject we are debating. The use of such images when one is espousing a role of utter subservience of a woman is all to telling. While I would enjoy a debate with you on the matter of “roles”…I hold little respect for the opinions of those who display such disrespectful images in such an important debate.
Fair enough. This person is in no way as far as I am aware is a christian so I am not surprised.
The importance of fathers come into this. While the woman may not be able to evaluate a man she falls in love with the father will have a more clear view of the potential spouse. Likewise for the man his mother may see past the deceit.
“but a husband never has the right to force sex with his wife….and fortunately the courts are in agreeance”
Does not the man and woman have conjugal rights?
Secondly that’s why unless you burn with passion its better not to marry. Only when both partners burn with passion for each other should they marry.
And just to clarify…I do mean the avatar used where the woman is nothing more than an object. Your responses have been far less disrespectful…if by no other means than intent.
Modern attitudes are undermining marriage in the following ways:
http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2012/05/11/reframing-christian-marriage/
http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2012/05/14/reframing-christian-marriage-part-2-rebelling-wives-arent-to-blame-for-their-own-rebellion/
http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2012/05/17/reframing-christian-marriage-part-3-husbands-as-helpmeets/
http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2012/05/18/reframing-christian-marriage-part-4-judging-the-performance/
http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2012/05/20/reframing-christian-marriage-part-5-sex-as-a-weapon/
The bible teaches husbands are to love their wives sacrificially (putting them first) like Christ loved the church and died for it. No qualifications, no if she does this or that will I love sacrificially. If you are a bible believing Christian then that is how God wants His families to operate. Anything else is sin!!!!!
Wow, the comments here are what I would expect, I guess. Sometimes, when writing a blog, some of what you are saying is missed. I have read enough of Matt’s blogs to know he is not trying to be a controlling husband who makes all the final choices. Telling your wife you want something does not mean you are going to buy it. Consulting with your wife does not mean “I will have the final say.” It means seeking wise counsel from a trusted partner. And I promise you his wife does not run every decision by him. On bigger things, I am sure she calls him and seeks wise counsel from a trusted partner too. And in most cases, I do not believe it is in Matt’s heart to do whatever he wants because he is the man of the house. And if/when he takes that approach, I bet he can admit he is being selfish/prideful/human. In order to fully understand these biblical principals, you have to really do your study and research, or follow what your heart says is a loving and kind response. In all reality, people twist what the Bible says to meet their needs or justify their behavior. There are plenty of people that take it out of context and claim God’s blessing. But any choice we make as a person that is not thoughtful and loving and with a servant’s heart is not God speaking but human nature.
Marriage is a woman’s game from the get go, and she plays it by the rules of Calvinball. The rules change situationally as the relative importance of various aspects of a specific situation change. Any man who surrenders his life for matrimony never knows what he’s getting into, since only women are raised with any knowledge of how the game is played. That is so she CAN be the boss. And don’t think for one minute that she doesn’t take advantage of this anytime she sees fit.
The only way a man can defend himself from this kind of life is to not ever marry. All of those so-called benefits various “studies” proclaim are slanted by the fact that the alternatives have not been tested by a society which deems marriage as the only viable condition.
Just a few issues.
The situation you posit is a result of a marriage with poor communication. In these situations a woman is seeking to control her husband. This could be for a myriad of reasons. The husband could be controlling, she could have been raised to seek control by example of her mother…there are countless variables that contribute to the situation. Ironically this is the very mass of variables that also give credibility to your statement:
“All of those so-called benefits various “studies” proclaim are slanted by the fact that the alternatives have not been tested by a society which deems marriage as the only viable condition.”
For myself, the term marriage is not only relegated to marriage. One can have any number of names or constructs to hold a viable relationship. There are many ways one can pursue such bonds. Marriage does not make ones relationship stronger…I am fully a supporter of this mindset. The relationship is strong or weak depending upon the individuals involved in such. Though marriage does carry with it certain legal and social benefits…this of course being a result of your very accurate statement that this is considered the only viable construct. Though that being said…it is a variable and must be considered when evaluating the benefits…regardless of its source…they do exist. So it’s an interesting social circle. Marriage, in and of itself, carries with it certain social benefits…but this is due to the fact that society considers it the only true display of commitment…one could go mad trying to separate which causes which as both play upon the other.
But anyway, your first paragraph is decidedly sexist…though there is truth in certain instances. However, generalizing marriage in such a manner is to ignore the countless variables that exist within such a construct.
Charles, I’ve read through some of your comments and I think you sincerely missed Matt’s point altogether. I’m a woman by the way (not that this should be relevant, but unfortunately, I suspect that for many readers here, it’s needed because they think only an ‘insecure man’ would say what I’m about to say).
Matt never asserted that he was the ‘boss’. I think yourself, Jo and Luke (some other people in your conversation threads), are reading too much into his post, and deducing phrases that would be offensive to just about anyone quite frankly. For example, Jo somehow deduced that Matt fancies himself a “protector”, and that his wife is virtually unable to ‘not allow’ Matt to do as he wishes i.e. “He makes the final decision” – Jo. When Matt stressed that this is exactly what he isn’t – a boss. A leader on the other hand, does make the final decision, but with a good amount of consultation, feed-back, and in terms in marriage, the full approval of his partner; or a compromise between the two.
You yourself went on at one point about ‘certain writers’ following ‘a pattern’ and all of that… Please tell me how you were able to deduce Matt’s diabolical agenda from a post where he advocates for men to be (or to learn to be) good leaders, and anyone who is familiar with good leadership knows that it imbibes a good deal of servant-hood/service. He never at any point implied that his wife is weak, docile, incompetent, sheep-like, or as Jo implied, unable to make a decision without him. How can you tell if Matt doesn’t think his wife is just as capable of protecting him as he is of her?
This is my first time on his blog and I certainly don’t agree with all he’s written – the A&E post for example, but I think you (and many others) have genuinely missed his point, or are taking offense on implications which are impossible to ascribe to Matt himself.
I don’t think you are the one understanding what he writes. Not to continue to kick a dead horse but lies of omission are very big with humans today, they are especially big with the “righteous”. It is what Matt practices and what you seem to want to ignore. He does not say we reach a decision together, or that each has equal say. If he was to say that he would be lying, so he leaves all that would cast him in a bad light out. Lies of omission.
Sort of like oral sex, if you don’t want to believe it is sex you say I did not have sex with that woman knowing damn well you did.
I could apply this to his whole post but I have a life.
This is in reply to Jo’s comment:
Your comment exemplifies precisely what I said/asked – You’re reading to much into what he said. How do you know what he practices? How much do you know of him to apply the blanket characteristic of ‘the righteous’? You’ve made a number of assumptions and built your arguments on those. “He does not say we reach a decision together, or that each has equal say. If he was to say that he would be lying”. How do you know this? What if he didn’t say so because he would have been stating the obvious. Mind you, he doesn’t say they don’t reach a decision together either. This is obvious to see yet you conveniently ignore this. Objectively, you can only argue based on what he actually ‘said’ not what you think he implied. On that note, I may be just as guilty as you are.
My point: There’s simply nothing but assumptions on which you build your positions. If your assumptions were in line with reality, then there would be much rightfully directed outrage towards Matt. But since your assumptions are possibly not in line with reality, or at least, we simply can’t tell, your arguments are at most, irrelevant.
You are making the same assumptions. I am not sure why you cannot see that. He does not say anything you say he does, he omits those points. You read it as of course he meant it, I read it as lies of omission. The difference in my mind is that I have several degrees in analysis, you do not. If I were a betting type I would put money on my assumptions not yours.
That type of writing style is why most of his posts inflame. He doesn’t commit to anything. He skirts the middle ground, it can easily go both ways. There is little outrage because most of the people here are like minded people. You guys want to say we are just haters, or twisting his words. Sorry but there is no need to twist, he commits to nothing.
I mean really, you haven’t noticed, he never posts on his blogs? He never clarifies? Why do you think that is? I mean the first response that said he makes the final decision, all he had to do is respond and say, that is not what I mean! I have a worldpress blog, you have no idea how easy it is to respond to any response you want! He doesn’t, why?
Simple answer, he knows to do so he either lies or admits what he really means which will create a lot of outrage. This is the first blog I have ever come across that the owner does not reply. At first I wondered why since it is rather odd. After reading enough of his blogs it is easy to figure out, he doesn’t want people to really know him because he will lose followers and the revenue you all create that he is apparently dependent on now.
Jo,
This is getting longer than it has to be. Remember I said, “I may be just as guilty as you are”. Therefore, I acknowledge that I rely on assumptions as well, (I can clearly see that, I’M not sure why you couldn’t read it), and followed by saying it’s nearly impossible to determine what he really thinks on posts as ambiguous as this.
On him not replying on his blog, it may be personal preference. I myself have a wordpress blog (you can search my name) – two actually – on one of those blogs I never reply the comments and that’s a personal preference.
On your ‘several degrees on analysis’, well, good for you! I’m not sure just what ‘analysis’ you’re professing here, or how long it would take for anyone (I’m guessing you’re like me – a millennial) to obtain ‘several degrees’; whatever it is, it’s an amazing feat. I’m Canadian and my engineering degree is all I can boast of. That, and some training in critical thinking, which led me to the arguments based on assumptions theory, and that how all our angst may be incorrectly channeled, or in other words, a waste of time.
I wouldn’t have commented but after seeing the long arguments posited by yourself, Charles (the original person my reply was directed at) and some others, all on implied statements, I felt the need to point out that all your energy may be wrongly placed, as Matt did not actually make those statements, and heaven knows what good hypotheticals will do for anyone especially Matt. But then, this may be where your ‘several degrees’ help you out.
Consistently, across all of his posts, he relies on his minions to fill in the blanks in a way that casts him in the best light, yet never explicitly says this is what he believes.
An example not based on his posts. Cookies are the best treat ever!! Then everyone responds, yes! chocolate chip cookies are the greatest thing ever! Then some of us come in saying he didn’t say that, what about sugar cookies. Then everyone says no, it is clear from his words he meant chocolate chip!!
It would be different if it was one post, perhaps even here or there, but every post he states opinion in a vague way and then everyone argues over meaning. This drives up hits, and his revenue stream. If he were to clarify it would end that discussion, cutting into his revenue. He wants people to debate his meaning, he wants money. Nothing wrong with that mind you, just call it what it is.
It’s 12:11 a.m. here, so Merry Christmas!
Remember when I said the long arguments and debates were likely inaccurate hence a waste of time? If you acknowledge this then why did you still participate? It was your long passionate arguments that compelled me to reply to yourself, Charles, and co. in the first place. I’m guessing you were aiming to make a point, and I hope the point was made.
Perhaps in the future, you can refrain from enriching Matt by refusing to argue over meanings and implications. This was my original point. I personally don’t think all his posts are hopelessly ambiguous. Then again, I only just started reading his blog.
Happy Holidays Jo.
I believe God is the boss and husband and wife are equal partners. Exact opposites, they both compliment each other. They honestly are team players and God is the coach. I really get tired of trying to make it more one way or the other. Life would be simpler if people would just get this.
Sadly, too many people will take this to mean something it doesn’t mean. Men are meant go be leaders. They are built that way. But marriage is a partnership. Biblically speaking, the husband is the leader of the household. But that means he has great responsibilities to his family to make sure they are financially stable, responsible with what God blesses them with, and not led astray. It does not mean he is the boss. It does not mean the wife must bow to him. If a man is not taking care of business for his family as he should, then he is not leading. He is shirking his responsibilities. This is a biblical principle. If you are not a Christian then no one is trying to tell you to follow them, though we believe society would be better off if men acted like men. In the bible, men love their wives as Christ loved the church, even being willing to lay down their lives for their wives. This does not allow for abuse. Abuse is paramount to breaking the marriage covenent. Marriage is a partnership. It is not archaic to follow biblical principles. Getting away from them has led this nation into the moral decay we suffer now.
A strong leader doesn’t lead by dominating. He leads by winning people over just as Christ did. There are no examples of Christ dominating his followers. A good leader can choose to lead toward unity (not my way or the highway). I find the idea that a husband has final say to be unbiblical. God has final say and we have his word to look to for examples. A husband can lead in looking to God and striving to find the correct answer for his family with his wife. Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It DOES NOT insist on its own way;
You, sir, have sand in your vagina. That you allow yourself to take exception to this time-tested tradition of self- deprication that in fact honors the feminine say in household affairs. Even in cultures rich with your preferred patriachical influence the housewife is called the “lord of the house.” The reality is that as a body moving in relationship to another body you are part master and part servant. Like the relationship of yen over yang and yang over yen. When you have children and the constraints of your relationship are really tested, you will see your true servitude in your relationship as well as your time as leader governed by the cart you now will pull. As for now, I defer to said sand in your underpants and that you try not to view personally effected by humor based on genderplay that roman graffiti artists and poets from time immamorable have canonized as a probably necessary steam release valve between gender stereotypes. Have kids and get the joke, I mean yoke maybe. Peace
Ever notice how TV sitcoms push this agenda? Even the commercials. Men are dumbed down to the level where only a woman can handle the situation and lead. Men are painted as grown up children. Years of this conditioning, for some, make it so. Where I live I take notice of the drivers in a car and more times than not, there is a female in the drivers seat. The “man” is being driven around. Most likely because she is much more responsible than he. But the point is is that he and many other men voluntarily take the submissive role when it comes to leadership. To taking care of a wife and children. The age of real men is vanishing. The baby boomers are the template for us Gen Xers and by the time the 20 somethings are at 40, well I do not look forward to that. Great article.
You can’t take marketing ploys as a replacement for reality. The products that are being sold in that way have women as their target audience, actually a specific group of women. Those commercials actually have the opposite effect on me.
The flip side are the commercials that target men, sexy women, or women being shrews only to be outsmarted by the man who then gets a hot woman.
Both types are insulting to both genders. Think about it, someone out there thinks *I* believe that men are useless and by using that stereotype I will want to buy that product. Seriously! you think women are that pathetic and one dimensional?? Asshats! They also think you will react to sexy women!! I don’t know you but I would like to think you use your brain to control decisions, I mean all the men I know don’t let their dicks control their decision making process.
So far as women driving cars? Come on!! You get home, the kids are in the car, your husband hops in. It is called efficiency! or maybe their husbands are bad drivers! God knows I never let my ex drive, he just sucked as a driver. All the accidents he had were with things that were not moving, who does that?? My husband drives everywhere, unless I just got home and he jumped in the car.
Jo. My wife dated plenty of “real” men before me. Isn’t it amazing that I was the one she chose to marry?
This “real” man thing has always been baffling to me. The “real” men who have been pointed out to me are the ones who “rule” their house, drink often, work manual labor jobs for far too little money and are genuinely displeasing to be around, at least to my wife and I. I guess I’m a “fake” man because my wife drives?
I would rather have a genuine man than a real one as well, you must have a smart wife.
It all falls back to that saying if you have to keep telling someone you are this or that, or real, then perhaps it is not as obvious as you think. If you must drive, must control your wife, if you must have all these trappings to show everyone you are a real man, maybe there is little real about you.
I mean really, a woman driving you is an affront to your masculinity? *snicker*
Oh and my husband and I have equal driving skills for the most part and I enjoy not having to drive all the time…unless we are late, that man does not have an aggressive bone in his body but that has more to do with the rather large van he drives for work. No worries, I am used to moving my car in heavy traffic!
Oh we only have one car because two is pointless. He drives his work van every day and in the evening we are together. I guess he isn’t a real man either, he doesn’t have his own car.
Ah yes, the “men lead” stereotype. It’s interesting you pick the situation of driving as your example. My wife enjoys driving…I do not. I am the type that obeys every speed limit, rule of the road and road laws. It’s difficult for me to drive as I refuse to be pressured into improper driving by the vast amount of idiot drivers on the road. My wife takes a different approach. She moves with the flow of traffic while trying to be as safe as possible, the unfortunate reality being that with so many irresponsible drivers out there…this is no easy task. She handles this much better than I. It’s amazing when we assign “roles” based on skills and desire…isn’t it?
As far as the advertising. Advertising is ridiculous, period. How about all the women reduced to mere objects of sex and control in the many Axe commercials and such?
Furthermore, ever consider that some couples are happy in an equal partnership without a designated “leader”? Or some men are happy letting their wife lead and it has nothing to do with “manhood”? What does the term “real man” even mean? Is it just another straw man setup that leaves no room for outliers and variables?
It is so embarrassing for me when after the Mass has ended and we congregateto the social hall when I overhear my husband referring to me as the boss. It is equally embarrassing or more so when he makes jokes about me being abusive. He says stupid stuff about me then tells the parishioner “just kidding. She could kick my butt” or talks about how I could break his nose etc.
There is almost no greater humiliation than being a wife to a man who takes no leadership and makes these kinds of jokes.
Thank you!!!!!